Perfecta 308 Win ammo at Wally World

P7M13 · Jul 14, 2015

I'm having pressure problems on my reloads, so I stopped at Wally World to pick up some 308 ammo for plinking.
They had Perfecta, from Italy. 147gr, boxer primed. $15.00/box of 20.
My gun really likes them, and is balls-on accurate with them.

Stomper · Jul 15, 2015

Balls-on sounds PAINFULL!

It's that Perfecta FMJ, or?

ZA_Survivalist · Jul 15, 2015

Yeah FMJ. Something like $14 a box right?
I was talkig to a guy and he said it built up a bit of carbon in his rifle like Tula?
However for the price, and reloadable brass, why not?!

Ive tried it. Never took it out past 100yards but my Cetme, C91 and PTR seemed to like it before I sold them.

Stomper · Jul 15, 2015

Carbon-schmarbon.... CLEAN YOUR WEAPON, YOU MAGGOTS!!

ZA_Survivalist · Jul 15, 2015

Stomper said:
Carbon-schmarbon.... CLEAN YOUR WEAPON, YOU MAGGOTS!!

Hey now, Im an AK guy that should say enough about that. A little carbon doesnt bother me.. But some fellas turn their nose at it.. More for me.

Stomper · Jul 15, 2015

Reduce your carbon footprint.... If it'll save just one Obama... scratch that, let it pile on!

Certaindeaf · Jul 16, 2015

So does anyone know the whole story on this ammo?
On the front of the box it says made in Italy and on the back it says imported by Tulammo or something.. and the ammo is shown at the Fiocchi website (hence the big "F" in perFecta?..).
Not that it really matters.. just wondering

Certaindeaf · Jul 16, 2015

It's just that many seem to be calling/considering it Tula/Tulammo instead of Fiocchi. Not that I think that there's..

Stomper · Jul 16, 2015

Tula buys from various sources and slaps their various brands on it for various market areas. I've come to realize "brand names" don't mean a whole lot anymore as most manufacturing is done in a few limited places to "OEM spec" then "X-company" slaps one of their various logos on it according to the market area, then "Y-company buys the same stuff with slight modifications and..... Yadda, yadda.

You'd be amazed how many "companies" and "brands" are owned by Emerson.

Darkker · Jul 17, 2015

P7id10T said:
I'm having pressure problems on my reloads.

How does one have pressure problems, with the only recourse being to buy ammo??!!
Please tell me you aren't "Reading" pressures by brass...?

P7M13 · Jul 18, 2015

Darkker said:
How does one have pressure problems, with the only recourse being to buy ammo??!!
Please tell me you aren't "Reading" pressures by brass...?

I'd say I'd have to resemble my name to miss the signs: flattened primers blown out of the pocket, hard bolt lift (i.e. needs torque) and having to hammer out the casing.
Buying ammo because my reloading bench was 950 miles west of me.

Certaindeaf · Jul 18, 2015

Darkker said:
How does one have pressure problems, with the only recourse being to buy ammo??!!
Please tell me you aren't "Reading" pressures by brass...?

In the long run/final analysis, even were one to have a fancy gizmo, even if that gizmo said "perfecto" or whatever, the brass tell is what really matters.. upon any particular occasion.

Darkker · Jul 18, 2015

No, brass and primers don't tell you anything, and here is why.
Anyone know what alloy their brass is?? Nope. How about their primer cups? Again, no. Anyone remember the reason why CUP is no longer used for modern cartridges? Because SAAMI sent some very carefully calibrated copper Crushers to the major ammo makers, had them test a standard reference load. The results reported pressure variations on the order of 20,000 PSI. Much like when it was discovered that Lead Crushers no longer accurately reported (at the time) high pressure cartridges, they moved to Copper Crushers. Then it was discovered that Copper won't report accurately over around 45,000 PSI, so strain gauges are now used.
Moreover, IF one were to use something similar to Olin C260 alloy like was used during contracts for the 30-06; it was spec'd to be hardened to almost 80,000psi.

So knowing that very carefully calibrated copper crushers can't accurately report modern pressures, there is ZERO way for uncalibrated, unknown alloy brass and primers to magically be more accurate.

So what is a guy supposed to do, without "fancy gizmos"? Use your chronograph!! Book data is pressure tested, all powder tells you to drop your loads by 10% when switching lots. So now you know an approximate burning rate variation. Start low, chronographing the whole time and work up. Book data uses SAAMI minimum spec chamber, bore, & Groove. Production firearms are not that tight, so your velocity will not be the same at the same pressures. Working up with the chrono, you will see what amount you are slow by. Once that difference changes, you know that you are over tested pressure, regardless of charge weight, again due to the difference in burning rate.

If you do have said "gizmo" like this Pressure Trace system, you can see that "Pressure Signs" weren't showing up in this test I did, and you can see the pressures I had.

Certaindeaf · Jul 19, 2015

Darkker said:
No, brass and primers don't tell you anything, and here is why.
Anyone know what alloy their brass is?? Nope. How about their primer cups? Again, no. Anyone remember the reason why CUP is no longer used for modern cartridges? Because SAAMI sent some very carefully calibrated copper Crushers to the major ammo makers, had them test a standard reference load. The results reported pressure variations on the order of 20,000 PSI. Much like when it was discovered that Lead Crushers no longer accurately reported (at the time) high pressure cartridges, they moved to Copper Crushers. Then it was discovered that Copper won't report accurately over around 45,000 PSI, so strain gauges are now used.
Moreover, IF one were to use something similar to Olin C260 alloy like was used during contracts for the 30-06; it was spec'd to be hardened to almost 80,000psi.

So knowing that very carefully calibrated copper crushers can't accurately report modern pressures, there is ZERO way for uncalibrated, unknown alloy brass and primers to magically be more accurate.

So what is a guy supposed to do, without "fancy gizmos"? Use your chronograph!! Book data is pressure tested, all powder tells you to drop your loads by 10% when switching lots. So now you know an approximate burning rate variation. Start low, chronographing the whole time and work up. Book data uses SAAMI minimum spec chamber, bore, & Groove. Production firearms are not that tight, so your velocity will not be the same at the same pressures. Working up with the chrono, you will see what amount you are slow by. Once that difference changes, you know that you are over tested pressure, regardless of charge weight, again due to the difference in burning rate.

If you do have said "gizmo" like this Pressure Trace system, you can see that "Pressure Signs" weren't showing up in this test I did, and you can see the pressures I had.
View attachment 248060

I don't think it'd be wise to blow up your gun, no matter what a chronograph says.

Darkker · Jul 19, 2015

Certaindeaf said:
I don't think it'd be wise to blow up your gun, no matter what a chronograph says.

Precisely. That's why reading brass and classic signs will get you in trouble quick. But if you watch the chrono, from starting loads, you can keep yourself off the DL.
If one makes an assumption, or doesn't start low with the chrono, them toy get what I logged in that Pressure Trace PC above. That type of secondary ignition is exactly what Mr. Sisk, of Sisk rifles had when he blew a few barrels apart.

blackadder · Jul 19, 2015

Darkker said:
No, brass and primers don't tell you anything, and here is why.
Anyone know what alloy their brass is?? Nope. How about their primer cups? Again, no. Anyone remember the reason why CUP is no longer used for modern cartridges? Because SAAMI sent some very carefully calibrated copper Crushers to the major ammo makers, had them test a standard reference load. The results reported pressure variations on the order of 20,000 PSI. Much like when it was discovered that Lead Crushers no longer accurately reported (at the time) high pressure cartridges, they moved to Copper Crushers. Then it was discovered that Copper won't report accurately over around 45,000 PSI, so strain gauges are now used.
Moreover, IF one were to use something similar to Olin C260 alloy like was used during contracts for the 30-06; it was spec'd to be hardened to almost 80,000psi.

So knowing that very carefully calibrated copper crushers can't accurately report modern pressures, there is ZERO way for uncalibrated, unknown alloy brass and primers to magically be more accurate.

So what is a guy supposed to do, without "fancy gizmos"? Use your chronograph!! Book data is pressure tested, all powder tells you to drop your loads by 10% when switching lots. So now you know an approximate burning rate variation. Start low, chronographing the whole time and work up. Book data uses SAAMI minimum spec chamber, bore, & Groove. Production firearms are not that tight, so your velocity will not be the same at the same pressures. Working up with the chrono, you will see what amount you are slow by. Once that difference changes, you know that you are over tested pressure, regardless of charge weight, again due to the difference in burning rate.

If you do have said "gizmo" like this Pressure Trace system, you can see that "Pressure Signs" weren't showing up in this test I did, and you can see the pressures I had.
View attachment 248060

It still tells you something, because as you pointed out you don't know the composition of your brass. If nothing else it's telling you that your brass is bubblegume and cannot handle the load you are putting in it regardless of what your chrono and the book says.

Darkker · Jul 19, 2015

....well, streching your action also tells you that.... Doesn't mean you should use that as a sign for load development.

2ndtimer · Jul 19, 2015

For some better quality ammo, try shooters pro shop in Bend, Oregon. They have SSA "seconds" in both 155 and 168 gr loaded with Nosler Custom Competition bullets for $14.95 per box of 20. Only thing "wrong" with them is they marked Pierce on the head stamps. They sure shoot like firsts in our heavy barrel Savage .308's. $12 flat shipping, too.