Oregon Universities open carry?

citycarry · Nov 7, 2011

I am familiar with the recent appellate ruling that found Oregon Universities to be in violation of Oregon CHL's preemption. Much like how Oregon CHL's preemption allows for open loaded carry in cities that prohibit it (i.e. Portland, Beaverton, Indepdendence), are students allowed to open carry on campuses and in classrooms at places like Portland State University, Oregon State University, etc.?

The reason I ask is because students can conceal-carry while wearing a jacket, but in the classroom while sitting down, the shirt may climb and expose the bottom part of a firearm. I am looking for confirmation that students may open-carry on campus and in classrooms, because that would make accidental exposures less to worry about.

CamoDeafie · Nov 7, 2011

its the same concept of the Port of Portland; the Port authority has declared that they WILL detain/arrest people carrying firearms at the Portland Terminal and PDX airport, even though the State court has repeatedly said that they do NOT have the authority to do so, and that it IS legal to carry weapons at these place. the Oregon University System will VERY likely expel, or discipline, or do both, to ANY student who carries on their campuses, even if they were doing so lawfully. the only real option for these students to overturn the decisions would be to get involved with a legal battle/sue the school systems and be out of more money. the OUS hopes that students will not risk losing their educational opportunities and grants by getting involved with litigation against the school system for something they have the RIGHT to do so (to carry firearms) due to costs involved, the average student is already burdened with quite severe debt; even though that ought not to have any bearing on the limitation of 2A

citycarry · Nov 7, 2011

Yeah, that's what I am afraid of. While I was walking to class today at WOU (Monmouth), a group of teens drove by in a dark SUV and one in the back seat stuck his hands out the window in the shape of a gun and "fired" at me. Car had Washington plates, and I was more pissed off than scared because they were immature idiots, the type that I'm concerned about since they have no respect for others or think "shooting" people is funny.

There were some students who said they couldn't learn in an environment where concealed firearms may be present. I'm a student who finds it difficult to learn without wondering if that stupid kid is going to come in blazin', therefore I am more comfortable while carrying concealed.

CamoDeafie · Nov 7, 2011

my parents live in Monmouth. how small a world! I have several friends in the Interpreting and ASL Studies major up there, and I'm in the area quite often....esp for the Elks gun club;s biweekly trap shoots

yeah Immature Idiots make the rest of the law-abiding citizens look bad......one need to just look at OWS for a wonderful example

regarding WOU; a few years ago, police got a MWG call (Man With Gun) and it turns out he was a legal CHL carrier; but I don't remember the details, some other people here will fill it in...Monmouth IS an open carry town, unlike it's northern neighbor Independence who has a restriction to CHL carriers....one thing to note; is that there are more immigrants in Independence rather than Monmouth....and also more bars (by 4 or 5 compared to three if you count Crush)

citycarry · Nov 8, 2011

Yeah, that was Jeff Maxwell. WOU suspended him, but he was allowed (WOU was forced by law) to return and all of his charges were dropped. Oregon Appeals ruled that WOU was in the wrong too.

osterr1999 · Nov 8, 2011

I carried when I was a student at OSU with my CHL because after reading the law it was clear to me that with a CHL there is nothing they can do about it. They can of course make some big deal about it like WOU did, but I doubted that they wanted the bad press after WOU got their hands slapped for doing it. I suppose you have to weigh the risks vs benefits. For me, after the Virginia Tech shooting, I decided that if I had to switch schools or take them to court because I was found to be carrying, that was a better alternative than not having a gun when I needed it.

cbdolphin · Nov 8, 2011

I am currently in contact with the department of public safety at Oregon State University getting some answers. Will post the outcome here when finished.

biggie24420 · Nov 10, 2011

If I was a student with a CHL I would just conceal really good..... just like they have the right to go MEH and make their own rules, I would MEH too and fallow the state law. If you are smart and conceal well I don't see a problem and the only time that gun would be showing is if my life was in danger.... and in that situation who cars about education if you are about to be killed? there are such things as bad laws and bad policies... so keep your mouth shut and carry condition 1.
As far as Beaverton goes..... last time I called a Beaverton PD Sargent to report one of their officers threatening me for OCing with my CHL license.... the SGT told me that Beaverton was OC friendly but he did not tell me if it was unloaded OC like Portland. That whole OC with an unloaded firearm and empty mag and or cylinder is one of the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.... condition butterscotch I guess. People who make dumb laws and policies should be let go and or shot IMHO..... I mean who the heck do they think they are to take away my right to defend myself? hmmmmm?

osterr1999 · Nov 10, 2011

It appears that the universities will be making rules about carrying in buildings and dorms. According to Kevin Starlett at OFF, they will most likely be able to get away with this. They can't, however, regulate the carry of private citizens. This is good for me, but not so good for current students. I am happy that when I go for alumni functions or just to visit that I will be able to carry without fear problems. As far as OCing, I never really understood the practice unless you were hunting. I realize that it is more comfortable, but if a bad situation ever did go down, you would be the first one shot at if the bad guy noticed you carrying before he pulled. I would rather have the element of surprise on my side.

hermannr · Nov 11, 2011

The colleges and universities will make more rules, and they will end up in court again, and the student so inconvienced may well get a free education out of it.

I'm still waiting for someone at UW to take those blighters to court. A simular ruling like the one in OR would do the stuffed shirt Board od Regents of UW right after bringing onboard that anti carry guy Young as President of the University. He got kicked out of Utah for not abiding the law there (he still wanted no guns on campus, and even tried to inforce it,,,,, even after the Legislature and courts said carry on campus was legal.)

Taurus 617 CCW · Nov 12, 2011

Concealed means concealed and backpack carry is better than not having it. I had no problems when I was attending, then again, I never discussed it with anyone.

hermannr · Nov 12, 2011

osterr1999 said:
As far as OCing, I never really understood the practice unless you were hunting. I realize that it is more comfortable, but if a bad situation ever did go down, you would be the first one shot at if the bad guy noticed you carrying before he pulled. I would rather have the element of surprise on my side.

This is an old wives tale. There are absolutely no verified cases of this happening (that is point me to a published court case). There are verifiable cases of a CC weapon being stolen during a robbery though.

The main advantage (I have carried for over 40 years, and this has happened to me, personally) of OC is the BG sees the OC and looks for an easier victim.

The Disadvantage to Concealed is, you have to "display" the weapon for it to be an effective deterant, or use it.... An OC weapon is out there for anyone that cares to look carefully.

Now if you would rather have a shoot out, you should get a whole lot more opportunities when concealed. Personally, I would rather not.

osterr1999 · Nov 14, 2011

hermannr, let's say I am planning on robbing a bank and I walking with my shotgun under my coat. I scope the place out and everything looks okay until I see you standing there with a pistol. I don't know if you are a cop or a private citizen, but I assume you are a cop. I walk up behind you put my shotgun against your back and announce I am robbing the bank. I take your weapon or shot you and then take your weapon, depending on if I am a pro or an amateur. I know what you are thinking, I might see the gun and decide to choose another bank. This is plausible, but unlikely since I have probably spent a lot of time casing this particular bank. Are there cases of this happening? I can't answer that, but it seems like it would be common sense. Now if you are carrying concealed, I have no reason to pay any more attention to you than anyone else. This gives you a tactical advantage over me.

hermannr · Nov 15, 2011

osterr1999 said:
hermannr, let's say I am planning on robbing a bank and I walking with my shotgun under my coat. I scope the place out and everything looks okay until I see you standing there with a pistol. I don't know if you are a cop or a private citizen, but I assume you are a cop. I walk up behind you put my shotgun against your back and announce I am robbing the bank. I take your weapon or shot you and then take your weapon, depending on if I am a pro or an amateur. I know what you are thinking, I might see the gun and decide to choose another bank. This is plausible, but unlikely since I have probably spent a lot of time casing this particular bank. Are there cases of this happening? I can't answer that, but it seems like it would be common sense. Now if you are carrying concealed, I have no reason to pay any more attention to you than anyone else. This gives you a tactical advantage over me.

The reality of the situation is (and the majority of felons interviewed in prison state this, it is not speculation) Armed Felon cases a bank (or quick stop, or whatever) intent on robbery, sees an OC and moves on to the next bank (or whatever) where there is less of a chance that they could be shot.

If felon has specific insider knowledge that this particular bank has something special he/she wants, he will back off and wait until the OC is long gone.

Is there a CHANCE that your senario may play out sometime? Sure there is a chance for anything. Has there ever been a documented instance of what you propose EVER happening in the US? No. The big one in WI from a few years ago has now be debunked.

Most criminals are lazy and do not want to make it difficult for themselves. It has been proven, several times over, and even with my own experience, a holstered gun is a deterent. Go over to opencarry.org and read. If you wish to hide your carry like a common criminal, go ahead. I am for individual rights.

The antis would rather you CC because OC is an educational tool also...people learn to be comfortable with legal OC, they will find that common citizens that OC are not a threat to their safety and wellbeing, then they will accept that it is OK, which is not what the antis want. This point is proven by the fact that the antis have specifically stated that they are targeting OC this next legislative session. They are afraid of open acceptance to joe citizen OC.