Obama and Guns II

[Trlsmn]

Yeah, that all seems pretty bad when you do not take into account the fact they were being fed doctored intel and downright false information at the time. It gets a little less damning when you start looking a little deeper and remember things like Colin Powell holding up a vial of anthrax and showing fake pictures of biological weapons bases while lying to the UN. When you forget he even resigned because of the lies when it started getting out. When you remember how many intel specialists at the Pentagon resigned or were forced out when they spoke up about the lies and false intel.

A little context is usually all it needs to dispel such blatant partisan smear jobs as the one you just posted.

Typical apologist, not to worry the current administration will keep you plenty busy. The difference between you an I is I don't cut the GOP any slack for their willful complicity I condemn them for it.

And again I ask you how old you are?

 

[rapter87772000]

Taking what happens a step at a time and eyes open is something more people in our country need to do. People don't understand that millions of dollars have been made off of the recent ban spook. All of us need to realize that its in the intrest of the gun companies to keep the people in a state of worry while at the same time lobby to the politicians to impose no gun restrictions. We as gun owners need to remember that as much as we may love a certain gun company they only thing they love about us is our ability to increase their profit margin.

Since the thread I started, "Obama and Guns" has been closed, members have complained about a lack of forum for that discussion. So let me offer the following proposition for discussion, with the hope that it will result in a threat-free, insult-free exchange.

Obama has done nothing to come after our guns yet. But his history and political instincts suggest he would like to impose some restrictions if he ever gets around to it. He holds a more restrictive view of the Second Amendment than I do. Ammo restrictions, AWB, etc. could be in the offing. He's not likely to be pushing these issues soon, but he might jump on to someone else's proposal. So we should be vigilant. Not hysterical, but reasonable and vigilant. Hysteria just makes the pro-SA community look silly. And if you are on Condition Red full time, you have no additional reaction available if there really is a restrictive proposal. Obama is a pretty savvy politician who isn't eager to take us on. I'm keeping my powder dry, my pistol cocked and locked, and my eyes wide open.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Really like what? taking away a woman's right to chose? You wrote a big paragraph there but didn't really say anything.

Just because you can't, or chose not to, understand it does not mean nothing was said.

Where has our world standing improved what has he done?

really? Are you actually going to pretend that is a legitimate stance? You actually going to try and pretend to be a centerist and bury your head in the sand like that?

A lot of damage will be done in a year, when have Dems ever cut the GOP slack?

Once again, you give away your true demeanor. Being on the right and saying it is the center to give the impression that the actual center is the left is a tired and old tactic.

I've mention that the Reps and Dems are a 2 headed snake more times than I remember. This forum is centered around Gun politics, other political views and discussions are swiftly discouraged so I don't bring up other relevant politics (to me).

Really? Perhaps you can point me to a thread where you bash the GOP for not accomplishing anything during their six year reign.

 

[Trlsmn]

I repeat how old are you?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Typical apologist, not to worry the current administration will keep you plenty busy. The difference between you an I is I don't cut the GOP any slack for their willful complicity I condemn them for it.

And again I ask you how old you are?

Once agin you say one thing and do another. If you admit the fact that the GOP cooked intel you would not post links trying to condemn dems for believing what the administration told them. You would place the fault were it belongs.

As for my age, it is in my profile. I know you are trying the tired old tactic of a right winger to launch an underhanded attack when you cannot make a true argument by questioning my involvement with the Reagan and Bush campaigns. I will humor you a little and tell you during Reagan's second term I worked with the WV young republicans group distributing buttons and literature and during Bush seniors campaign I was in college and manned local phone banks and volunteered with the local republican center. I came from a very politically involved military family and such activities were almost required of us. It was not as clever of you as you think to try and pretend I was somehow making up "another job" to distract from your arguments lack of substance and your falsehoods about being in the center.

 

[Trlsmn]

Once agin you say one thing and do another. If you admit the fact that the GOP cooked intel you would not post links trying to condemn dems for believing what the administration told them. You would place the fault were it belongs.

As for my age, it is in my profile. I know you are trying the tired old tactic of a right winger to launch an underhanded attack when you cannot make a true argument by questioning my involvement with the Reagan and Bush campaigns. I will humor you a little and tell you during Reagan's second term I worked with the WV young republicans group distributing buttons and literature and during Bush seniors campaign I was in college and manned local phone banks and volunteered with the local republican center. I came from a very politically involved military family and such activities were almost required of us. It was not as clever of you as you think to try and pretend I was somehow making up "another job" to distract from your arguments lack of substance and your falsehoods about being in the center.

I admitted no such thing. And I don't see your age in your profile, I thought you said you were 38 but since that could be wrong is why I'm asking, a simple question, a guess not a simple answer.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I admitted no such thing. And I don't see your age in your profile, I thought you said you were 38 but since that could be wrong is why I'm asking, a simple question, a guess not a simple answer.

I will be 43 this year...and if you do not see the facts that the GOP cooked intel you cannot even pretend to be taken seriously as someone in the center of anything. You are clearly towing the party line.

 

[Trlsmn]

I will be 43 this year...and if you do not see the facts that the GOP cooked intel you cannot even pretend to be taken seriously as someone in the center of anything. You are clearly towing the party line.

You put that whole argument out there I neither agreed or diagreed with it and yet you wield it as proof that I am incorrect and you are correct, bwahahaha.

Time to work, to be continued..........

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

You put that whole argument out there I neither agreed or diagreed with it and yet you wield it as proof that I am incorrect and you are correct,

I do not believe I was the one trying to post partisan YouTube videos without context. I do believe that was you. You try to pretend to be fair while you are being anything but fair. You are just playing the label game. If you label the right as the center often enough people might start to believe it.

 

[mdbuehler]

As long as I agree with the majority of a parties platform I will be willing to vote for them and fight them on the one or two things we disagree upon. I am not so ignorant or short sighted that I can be easily placated with something like lip service to gun rights while ignoring the bigger picture.

I'm an independent that usually went republican, and you can sum up my thoughts about the same way. I went the Obama route too after seeing what the republicans did the past 8 years, and what they were offering for the next four. I disagree with the administrations views on guns and gun control, and will gladly let them know / actively oppose them on that issue. I don't have tunnel vision though and am looking at everything both canidates stood for and the dems got my vote this year. Obama is far from perfect to fit my views (any partisan candidate is going to be) but he was a lot closer then the alternative choice (a ticket which I thought insulted the intelligence of a lot of folks with both the VP pick and constant fear mongering).

My view is a bit changed now too as I have a gf and 8 yo kid who's futures / best interests now affect my decisions. I'm not just looking out for myself which has made me think more about things in the long term.

 

[elsullo]

My question goes the other way.
CEF and the Penguin are obviously supporters of Obama's, so I ask you guys, and all registered dems too for that matter:

How much of a push for gun control will it take for you to vote against him in 2012? Against Dem majority in Congress in 2010?
Is it not that big of a deal for you guys? Will You put up with it if you get the social/enviro/healthcare/end of war/global standing issues you want?
Are you gonna toe the party line? Abstain? Vote them out?

Give us an idea of this issue's importance with you.

A sincere question deserves a fair answer. I am proud to say that I am a life-long Labor Democrat as my passions are power, justice, and security for tax-paying working people, and not for what I call the "Filthy Rich" corporate capitalists who run this country. This does not mean that I think the Democratic Party is any LESS corrupt and elitist than the Republicans are.

I am neither Left Wing nor Right Wing consistantly. On some issues I am farther Left than Chairman Mao, and on other issues I am farther Right than Ghengis Kahn. I never vote a "party line" and see a deep streak of delusion in the Democratic Party, especially over Second Amendment freedom. I almost never see my favorite candidates win in the primaries. In the general elections I almost always have to bite my lip and vote for the "lesser of the two evils."

The Second Amendment is my SECOND most important voting issue, and I query every candidate on it. I maintain my NRA and OFF memberships and send money to the NRA-ILA. Yes, I even write to my elected officials about the gun freedoms we urgently need to defend. I am quite certain that the Washington DC elitists of BOTH parties intend to get around to pursuing more gun control---our government fears the power of the people to defend themselves, if need be.

My FIRST most important political issue is keeping the Nation from catastrophe, such as, oh, WORLD WAR and total economic collapse into global financial Depression CHAOS which will cost literally millions of innocent lives. If I need to postpone my gun freedom fight until the next election to save the Country, then I will bite the bullet and vote accordingly.

I supported Obama in spite of my alienation from ANY Harvard Law School graduate, because I saw him as the only immediate political hope to save the world from imminent chaos. AND I was confident that he could be "managed" on gun control at least for his first term, and simply be too busy working to repair the teetering global economy. By his voting history and his new appointments it is very clear that he aims someday to limit our gun freedoms, if he can get around to it, so we must all ally together to fight this with the NEXT election cycle!

As a Democrat on economic issues, the Second Amendment IS A BIG DEAL to me, and I hope to guide my party to more common sense on this. What I really need is a new Working People's Party that represents the people rather than elitists fearing us and trying to protect us from ourselves! I tire of "right-wing partisans" besmirching my patriotism for voting for temporary political compromises like Obama to save the Nation on other, BIGGER issues. It is sad when Second Amendment "conservatives" seek to drive out "liberal" allies that they don't even know exist........................elsullo

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I am neither Left Wing nor Right Wing consistantly.

Me either. When I see GOP politicians or dems politicians that always toe the party line on every topic it makes me suspicious of their motives. I will admit you see it a whole lot more from the GOP than the dems. The GOP became a weird sort of purified club about 20 years ago and is now full or robots and mouthpieces.

I myself am very far left on some topics, very far right on some topics, and in the middle on others. I always question the intelligence of anyone that doesn't vary some in their views. I am very right on topics like guns, welfare, immigration, and abortion (of course my version of right of center means I am completely against most abortions but I do not believe the government has the right to legislate what someone does with their body). I am very left on health care, most social issues, and drugs. Other things I fall in the middle.

 

[KENOC]

Me either. When I see GOP politicians or dems politicians that always toe the party line on every topic it makes me suspicious of their motives. I will admit you see it a whole lot more from the GOP than the dems. The GOP became a weird sort of purified club about 20 years ago and is now full or robots and mouthpieces.

I myself am very far left on some topics, very far right on some topics, and in the middle on others. I always question the intelligence of anyone that doesn't vary some in their views. I am very right on topics like guns, welfare, immigration, and abortion (of course my version of right of center means I am completely against most abortions but I do not believe the government has the right to legislate what someone does with their body). I am very left on health care, most social issues, and drugs. Other things I fall in the middle.

I am with you on every issue there. Personally i hate labels, but usually just call myself a libertarian with a small l....

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I am with you on every issue there. Personally i hate labels, but usually just call myself a libertarian with a small l....

I can't call myself a libertarian because I do not have enough faith in my fellow man to do the right thing without a strict method of regulation and enforcement.

 

[CEF1959]

Gun rights and Second Amendment guarantees represent only one of many issues I'm interested in. I don't vote on the basis of any single issue.

Oh, and I never said I was an Obama supporter or a Democrat.

 

[Trlsmn]

I myself am very far left on some topics, very far right on some topics, and in the middle on others. I always question the intelligence of anyone that doesn't vary some in their views. I am very right on topics like guns, welfare, immigration, and abortion (of course my version of right of center means I am completely against most abortions but I do not believe the government has the right to legislate what someone does with their body). I am very left on health care, most social issues, and drugs. Other things I fall in the middle.

Now see that sounds exactly like myself, no wonder we butt heads. The only difference is I hold Dems in equal contempt as I do the GOP and I have no faith that the Dems will do the right things for the right reasons.

 

[fromotoc]

That obama wants to take away weapons. He is starting on the macro level, trying to limit the number of warheads a country can have. Eventually, this type of legislature or whatever you want to call it will come to america.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2009/07/20097774858107336.html

 

[4Freedom]

I see a majority of the people posting on this thread are liberals and support Obama. A bit strange for a gun website to have such a crowd, but oh well, the Pac NW is most liberal part of country. Anyway, I don't want to bash all of you and get into heated political debate, but let me make a few points that will help sober you up from your media infused liberalized intoxication:

1. Obama said in his own words, "PEOPLE SHOULD NOT OWN GUNS". This was a very simliar statement from the so-called conservative president of France, who also said it was insanity that people own guns. Check out BHO's voting record. He was the most anti-gun politician in the history of the USA. He refused to vote on many issues, but any time a gun issue, arised he voted in favor of every measure that would inhibit the rights of gun owners or would help increase restrictions related to guns. For all those who are skeptical about what am I writing, all his anti-gun legislation and votes have been recorded in the Senate and are accessible to the public. He wrote right on his campaign website he has a long term goal of reinstating an AWB, but to make this one permanent. That is the exact words on his campaign website.

Of course, read #2.. He will have to become his own apologist, with the help of his teleprompters and advisors to explain his true meaning as not to lead people on from hard and cold facts of what he has done. I know you had a feeling in your guts he may take your guns, but oh well, you will get cheap health care. OR will you??? Hmm..

2. Mr. Hussein Obama speaks with a forked tongue. The old native proverb holds true in this case. I am yet to see a politician who contradicts himself on every issue as much as this guy. Kerry rivaled Obama, in this respect, but didn't have the Messiah like representation.

3. If the fact that his house was bought with the aid of Syrian mafia doesn't bother you, well thats fine, mafia did help build a lot of great players in our country, throughout history.

4. Against wars and government coverups. In case you didn't notice, the liberals have not removed our troops from the "peaceful" Middle Eastern countries which we of course, with the deceitfulness of Bush, CHeney and Powell (who voted for Obama).

5. I suppose you think endless taxation, socialism, bureaucracy and adopting a more Marxist approach will be the solution to all the problems our country faces today? Well, the CHANGE you seek, is not a change for the better, its just a step backward, putting our feet in the same toilet, the Russians, Chinese and many other socialist dictatorships have been for many generations.

6. Why should we pay all our hard earned money to support illegal aliens? Familes who had so many children and would not take financial responsibility? People who are too lazy, drunk, drugged out to work? Lot of money is spent on useless projects and ends up in the pockets of corrupt and unregulated politicians and government agencies. Look at what Happened in Russia, many of the politicians enriched themselves while the country was deteriorating.

7. The average middle class American pays 45% taxes and the POTUS says its not enough, we need more money for bogus government programs and to empower an already bloated and empowered bureaucracy. Our tax rates are starting to rival those of many of the more socialist European countries. I am not even including sales tax and many of the other taxes we are paid.

8. Bailout plan.. The government will now control a majority of the private industries until they can become desirable and people will choose to buy their products again. What happens if their products never find a market ever again? Who is going to be footing the bill to keep these bankrupt companies alive? Government run factories didn't fare too well in the old Soviet Union.

 

[westernsky20]

All fair and well said now how would you fix all this?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

1. Obama said in his own words, "PEOPLE SHOULD NOT OWN GUNS".

Please cite your source for this information. I hope you are not using the widely disputed claim made during the Lott interview where a gun advocate claims Obama made this statement to him.