O/U Rifle/Shotgun combo

[huzar]

Folks, I've developed a hankering for a "do it all" deer/elk and opportunistic forest grouse gun. I saw that CZ used to make such things under their Brno line (they still make and sell a .308/12ga combo in Australia), and I found one chambered in 7x57/16ga from the mid-60s on Gunbroker. Seems that 7x57 would be more than adequate for deer or elk, and there are still some good loads for it, so I'm not hugely concerned about that. I'm more curious about whether I should expect issues with the 16ga barrel if I use non-lead shot?

Also, just generally curious about what people think about such combinations?

Read More

 

[User 1234]

Do the hunting seasons ever overlap so that you could shoot either species on the same trip? If so, go for it. I really like those o/u combo guns. That one in your link looks very nice. I know that modern defensive arms are necessary because of the world we live in, but they sure don't produce that Norman Rockwell nostalgia that a blued walnut stocked gun does.

 

[huzar]

Yep. Here in WA, forest grouse season overlaps nicely with both elk and early and late deer seasons. While looking for deer this past weekend, we found three blue grouse, but my partner missed the shot with his .22LR/.410 combo, and all I had was my deer rifle, so I couldn't shoot at another one simultaneously

 

[The Heretic]

In some calibers with the right ammo, some people use these for turkey.

Heard they are popular in Europe too. Not to mention drillings and other combination long guns.

Valmet made the 412 models with interchangeable barrels, O/U double rifles, double shotguns, combination and IIRC you could adjust the POI. Valmet also made some for Savage who rebranded them, but you could not swap out the barrels - otherwise they were the same as the Valmets.

Savage made some combos themselves - I have one in .223 and 20 ga. - IIRC they made a combo in .30-30 and 20 ga.

I also have an M6 Scout in .410 and .22 rimfire.

I think Winchester at one time made an O/U combo too IIRC.

 

[huzar]

Yeah, 22LR/.410 combos seem to be the most common, marketed as survival rifles and such. I also see that Rossi has a .243/20ga combo, which could be a good deer/grouse gun, though probably not suited for elk. I know nothing about the quality of Rossi firearms, however. I mainly think of them as cowboy action guns...

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Folks, I've developed a hankering for a "do it all" deer/elk and opportunistic forest grouse gun. I saw that CZ used to make such things under their Brno line (they still make and sell a .308/12ga combo in Australia), and I found one chambered in 7x57/16ga from the mid-60s on Gunbroker. Seems that 7x57 would be more than adequate for deer or elk, and there are still some good loads for it, so I'm not hugely concerned about that. I'm more curious about whether I should expect issues with the 16ga barrel if I use non-lead shot?

Also, just generally curious about what people think about such combinations?

Lots of really cool drilling's out there. But they are usually $1500 or more. Lots of different variations for the three barrels. Fe:

J.P. Sauer & Sohn Drilling 16ga 8x57mm Excellent

J.P. Sauer & Sohn Drilling 16ga 8x57mm Excellent for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

 

[huzar]

Yeah, some of those are true works of art: FR. Wilhelm Heym Anson & Deeley Double Rifle Drilling 8X57 JR / 8x57 JR x 16 ga. for sale

Thanks for sending me down that rabbit hole... my neighbor, who's taken me under his wing and taken me hunting, used to hunt with a 9.3x72/16ga like this one back in Poland.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Savage used to offer a combo, as did Baikal, one of these would be pretty slick to have!

 

[huzar]

This would have been another sweet setup: CZ 854 Combination Gun in 12 gauge/7x57R for sale

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Yeah, some of those are true works of art: FR. Wilhelm Heym Anson & Deeley Double Rifle Drilling 8X57 JR / 8x57 JR x 16 ga. for sale

Thanks for sending me down that rabbit hole... my neighbor, who's taken me under his wing and taken me hunting, used to hunt with a 9.3x72/16ga like this one back in Poland.

9.3 x 72, I had to look that one up. I had heard of the 9.3x74... all big boys

 

[huzar]

Maybe it was a 9.3x74... either way, a big gun.

Still, I haven't heard anything from anyone about potential issues shooting steel (or tungsten, or bismuth) shot out of barrels originally meant for lead. I've heard rumblings of concerns, but I'm wondering if anyone here has direct experiences one way or the other.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

i have no direct experience with the firearm in question.
So here is a large salt shaker...

As a broad general rule...most older shotguns that are choked tighter than Modified should not be used with steel shot.
Something else to consider is that as useful as the 16 gauge is , it is not as popular as it once was...and ammo may be difficult to find and more expensive.
Andy

 

[Spitpatch]

Savage did indeed chamber their Model 24 in .30-30 over 20ga (and I believe over 12ga as well). Carrying this versatile gun, the hunter afield is ready and well-equipped for any critter that walks our woods. Since the gun is not a tube-fed repeater, bullet selection for the ol' "thutty thutty" expands limitlessly to accommodate any application (think 165gr Nosler Partitions!). Elk medicine toot sweet. Or, go the other direction for coyotes (think 110gr Hollowpoints!).

Not a tube-fed repeater, but certainly can be classified as a repeater, since that second barrel is only a hammer sweep away. Should a monster Wapiti not loose his footing right away with the .30 caliber injection, administering a 20ga slug will convince him lead poisoning is certainly fatal.

Collectors (including myself) and hunters (including myself) are snagging up the Model 24's right and left. It is getting harder and harder to find ones in decent shape (they were guns that were used A LOT!), but they are out there at premium asking prices. Best bet is to find one that has "been around the block" but "still all there". (Cosmetic issues only.) Overhaul/refinish it to suit yourself, mount optics or peep sight if desired, attach a buttstock ammo carrier that will hold 4-5 rounds of each of the two calibers and you are set for "Grab and Go" for an all-day hunt or more.

With apologies to the breath-mint industry, "It's two! Two! Two guns in one!"

 

[The Heretic]

Savage did indeed chamber their Model 24 in .30-30 over 20ga (and I believe over 12ga as well).

The Savage combos in 12 ga were rebranded Valmets and were called the 2400

 

[Spitpatch]

The Savage combos in 12 ga were rebranded Valmets and were called the 2400

News to me. All of them from inception? Good info since I have never owned one in 12ga and cannot speak to this. Ones I saw certainly were configured precisely as other 24's.

 

[The Heretic]

News to me. All of them from inception? Good info since I have never owned one in 12ga and cannot speak to this. Ones I saw certainly were configured precisely as other 24's.

All of the ones that were the Model 2400. The Valmets were quality guns. The only difference between the Savage 2400 and the Valmet 412 that I know of is that you could not swap barrels on the 2400 like you could the 412 - Valmet probably did that so that the Savage guns would not undercut their 412 models which went for high prices.

Savage Model 24 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Now here is something I did not know:

Savage Model 24 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Spitpatch]

Reading this may explain my having seen more than one 12ga gun that was in true 24 configuration. Model 24 (not 2400) caliber listing here DOES show 12ga. The Valmet guns are quite distinctive from a 24. I shopped for a Valmet for a few years (especially when the prices got better/closeouts, etc.)

 

[The Heretic]

Reading this may explain my having seen more than one 12ga gun that was in true 24 configuration. Model 24 (not 2400) caliber listing here DOES show 12ga. The Valmet guns are quite distinctive from a 24. I shopped for a Valmet for a few years (especially when the prices got better/closeouts, etc.)

True. I do not recall the 24 being available in 12 ga. and I have never seen one, but apparently they are out there.

I have a 24 in .223/20 - I recall paying something like $350 for it at a WAC show. It has the synthetic stock.

 

[huzar]

i have no direct experience with the firearm in question.
So here is a large salt shaker...

As a broad general rule...most older shotguns that are choked tighter than Modified should not be used with steel shot.
Something else to consider is that as useful as the 16 gauge is , it is not as popular as it once was...and ammo may be difficult to find and more expensive.
Andy

Yeah, so the one I linked to has an F choke, which I assume means Full, probably a fixed choke. I suppose since lead shot is fine for upland bird, I shouldn't be worrying myself over steel shot in that barrel. As for the availability of 16ga... I've heard rumors it's having a bit of a comeback, though that may well be short-lived. Thanks for the info, @Andy54Hawken

 

[Spitpatch]

The 16ga is alive and well and getting better. Nearly ignored for longer than deserved, a resurgence is in process and a good indicator of that is its presence on the ammo shelves at discount stores (read: Bi Mart). No, you can't get a box for the same price as 20's and 12's, but when those guages are on sale at 5-6 dollars a box (for low-base target loads), 16's sit right beside them at 6-7 dollars a box. High base hunting loads are priced relatively in the same ratio of comparison. It wasn't that way for way too long.

Another indicator is the offering of this guage in more and more guns. Particularly in high-end over/unders (Browning, Merkel, etc), it shows often in factory listings. A great reason for this is that a 16ga gun is more often than not of the same receiver size as a 20 (rather than a larger receiver accommodating the 12ga).

The discriminating wingshooter is discovering what is an old adage long forgotten: "The Sweet Sixteen: Carries like a Twenty, hits like a Twelve."