Non gun owners & SB 978

Discussion in 'Firearm Laws & Legal' started by nwslopoke, Apr 16, 2019.

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  1. nwslopoke

    nwslopoke
    forest grove
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    Good people, the non gun owners in Oregon, are just finding out that it is illegal for them to protect and defend themselves. They may or may not be against gun control but it never occurred to them that their small bottle of pepper spray while jogging or on a city bus could make them a felon.

    Actually some I talked to were really shocked. Knowing they've been places where they never see police but they themselves don't want to have a gun, got the wheels spinning. Yes, you are on your own but now guns, mace & most knives will be illegal in Oregon. So remind your friends, even the ones that don't have guns what 978 wants to do.
     
  2. tkdguy

    tkdguy
    Portland, Oregon
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    Nice if this could be circulated.
     
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  3. arakboss

    arakboss
    Portland, Oregon
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    Can we parse this out on this thread. Where would the pepper spray be illegal? Can we post the relevant sections here? I would like to be able to promote this.
     
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  4. tkdguy

    tkdguy
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    Any way we can take up a collection and advertise the talking points in the Oregonian? Buy an ad to inform people? Or advertise in the nickel ads?? Something like that? I'd contribute and I'm sure others would do so as well. any of the pro-gun organizations willing to pick this up?
     
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  5. arakboss

    arakboss
    Portland, Oregon
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    We might be able to get some publicity for free if people will write to clehman@oregonian.com or jlevinson@opb.org or a bunch of other media outlets.
     
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  6. tkdguy

    tkdguy
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    That is a good idea; but advertising is a sure thing if we can finance it? Any ideas? Anyconnections that you have with an organization that could help?
     
  7. tkdguy

    tkdguy
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    Do you know of these folks personally?
     
  8. tkdguy

    tkdguy
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    Where is the reference that pepper spray carried would make people a felony?
     
  9. arakboss

    arakboss
    Portland, Oregon
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    I don't have any connections like that. You could contact Radian and see if they can help. There are plenty of groups that will be concerned about this bill especially the pre-1968 ban part of it. FFLs for starters if you can type up a blanket email and just start the grind of looking up each ffl and their email address I think it would net the most attention for the least amount of dollars (free if you don't count labor) I emailed Oregon Hunters Assc and they are on this now. There must be other groups out there like that. Veteran's groups, etc. What about Oregon Gun Owners are they on this? We know OFF is. What about the prepper blog guys, we had one on NWFA from Washington State back during the benchmade fiasco. Youtube channels.

    The list goes on and on it just takes work. If somebody compiled a list of places to contact and asked for volunteers to take on a few places each to write letters to maybe that would work.
     
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  10. nwslopoke

    nwslopoke
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    I copied a section from SB 978 and bolded the section. I deleted a few parts that did not cut/paste correctly. But Section 26, page 37 part C has what I was speaking on.
    (Also this seems to be amended from the link below that is in a different section). My daughter used to work in a public works building. Does this mean I would have committed a felony for picking her up in the parking lot?

    Oregon's SB-978 Gun Control Bill Is So Hysterically Restrictive That Pepper Spray Is A Felony




    “SECTION 26. ORS 166.360 is amended to read:
    “166.360. As used in ORS 166.360 to 166.380, unless the context requires
    otherwise:
    “(1) ‘Capitol building’ means the Capitol, the State Office Building, the
    State Library Building, the Labor and Industries Building, the State Trans
    portation Building, the Agriculture Building or the Public Service Building
    and includes any new buildings which may be constructed on the same
    grounds as an addition to the group of buildings listed in this subsection.
    “(2) ‘Court facility’ means a courthouse or that portion of any other
    building occupied by a circuit court, the Court of Appeals, the Supreme
    Court or the Oregon Tax Court or occupied by personnel related to the op
    erations of those courts, or in which activities related to the operations of
    those courts take place.
    “(3) ‘Judge’ means a judge of a circuit court, the Court of Appeals, the
    Supreme Court, the Oregon Tax Court, a municipal court, a probate court
    or a juvenile court or a justice of the peace.
    “(4) ‘Judicial district’ means a circuit court district established under
    ORS 3.012 or a justice of the peace district established under ORS 51.020.
    “(5) ‘Juvenile court’ has the meaning given that term in ORS 419A.004.
    “(6) ‘Loaded firearm’ means:
    “(a) A breech-loading firearm in which there is an unexpended cartridge
    or shell in or attached to the firearm including but not limited to, in a
    chamber, magazine or clip which is attached to the firearm.
    “(b) A muzzle-loading firearm which is capped or primed and has a powder
    SB 978-5 4/8/19 Proposed Amendments to SB 978 Page 36

    charge and ball, shot or projectile in the barrel or cylinder.
    “(7) ‘Local court facility’ means the portion of a building in which a
    justice court, a municipal court, a probate court or a juvenile court conducts
    business, during the hours in which the court operates.
    “(8) ‘Probate court’ has the meaning given that term in ORS 111.005.
    “(9) ‘Public building’ means:
    “(a)(A) A hospital[,];
    “(B) A capitol building[,];
    “(C) A public or private school, as defined in ORS 339.315[,];
    “(D) A college or university[,];
    “(E) A city hall; [or]
    “(F) The residence of any state official elected by the state at large, [and
    the grounds adjacent to each such building.] if the residence is owned by
    the state; or
    “(G) The [term also includes that] portion of any other building owned,
    occupied or controlled by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation,
    as defined in ORS 297.405, other than a court facility[.];
    “(b) The grounds, other than a parking area, adjacent to a building
    described in paragraph (a) of this subsection;
    “(c) Real property owned by a college or university; or
    “(d) The passenger terminal, and grounds adjacent to the passenger
    terminal, of a commercial service airport that has at least 1 million
    passenger boardings per calendar year.
    “(10) ‘Weapon’ means:
    “(a) A firearm;
    “(b) Any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slingshot, metal knuckles or any similar
    instrument or a knife, other than an ordinary pocketknife with a blade less
    than four inches in length, the use of which could inflict injury upon a
    person or property;
    “(c) Mace, tear gas, pepper mace or any similar deleterious agent as de
    SB 978-5 4/8/19 Proposed Amendments to SB 978 Page 37


    fined in ORS 163.211;
    “(d) An electrical stun gun or any similar instrument;
    “(e) A tear gas weapon as defined in ORS 163.211;
    “(f) A club, bat, baton, billy club, bludgeon, knobkerrie, nunchaku,
    nightstick, truncheon or any similar instrument, the use of which could in
    flict injury upon a person or property; or
    “(g) A dangerous or deadly weapon as those terms are defined in ORS
    161.015.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  11. arakboss

    arakboss
    Portland, Oregon
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    I just fired this off to a reporter at the Statesman Journal, feel free to copy and paste and send to other news outlets:


    I wanted to alert you to a controversy brewing in Salem regarding SB 978-5. It turns out Section 17 (1) (b) & Section 17 (2) of the bill will criminalize possession of nearly all pre-1968 US made firearms, nearly all firearm imported prior to 1968 and any home built firearms that did not use a receiver or frame that was serialized in accordance with the federal regulations listed in SB 978-5. I can't identify the name of the assistant or Senator who confirmed this information for me but they ran this issue through the Legislative Office and they sent this back to the Senator:

    As it is right now – if the bill[sic] wouldn’t qualify as an antique firearm then there is no grand fathering process for otherwise non-conforming firearms. I will bring this up to the Chair and see if its something he thinks there needs to be an amendment for and what that would look like. The difficulty, as I’m sure you can imagine, is figuring out what the “cut off” is for having these firearms – but the simple answer for your constituent is that there is not currently a provision that would allow him to continue to possess that firearm lawfully.

    I can't tell you if this was the intention of the bills language or not but it will be the result. Washington State is trying to pass a similar law (HSB1739) banning untraceable firearms but they were smart and included a grandfather clause that deems all untraceable firearms legal if they were manufactured before July 1, 2019.

    Please share this with your readers. Below is some more detail information on why SB 978-5 will criminalize these older firearms.

    Sincerely,
    Eric Jones



    Section 17 (1) (b) & Section 17 (2) will criminalize possession of nearly all pre-1968 firearms manufactured in US, nearly all firearms imported in to US prior to 1968 and nearly all home built firearms made with unserialized receivers or frames regardless of date. SB 978-5 does not offer any grandfathering clause for these groups of firearms. That will result in hundreds of thousands of currently owned firearms becoming illegal with passage of the bill as currently written. Washington State has a similar law in the works (SHB1739) but it grandfathers in all untraceable firearms manufactured before July 1, 2019.

    SB 978-5 requires that nearly all firearms in Oregon have a serial number that was done by the licensed manufacture of the firearm in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 923(i) & 27 C.F.R regulations. Although many older firearms have serial numbers, many won't be legal under SB 978-5 law. Pre-1968 U.S. made and imported firearms will not have serial numbers done in accordance with the federal regulations.
    I want to emphasize that even if a firearm has a serial number, if it was manufactured prior to 1968, that serial number doesn't meet the SB 978-5 requirements. A lot of people are assuming any old serial # from the manufacture will exempt their firearms. Serial numbers prior to 1968 were not done in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 923(i) & 27 C.F.R 478.92 because these regulations did not exist. As the ATF fully admits, pre-1968 firearms are not traceable.

    "Can a firearm trace always identify the first retail purchaser?
    No. Many factors can make the trace of a firearm impossible. The most
    common among these is the incomplete or inaccurate description of the
    firearm (see Chapter 3 for more information). Other prohibiting factors
    include obliterated markings; damage or loss of firearms transaction
    records; a manufacturing date prior to 1968; and, trace requests for
    firearms that were not manufactured in, or lawfully imported into, the
    United States."


    Same goes for imported firearms, which may have a serial number from the foreign factory but that won't exempt them from SB 978-5 prohibition. Firearms imported before 1968 are going to suffer the same fate. If your imported firearm doesn't have a importer issued serial number and importer identification markings engraved on the firearm, it will be prohibited from possession under SB 978-5 law.

    There are a few antique exemptions but it will only impact a tiny fraction of the pre-1968 firearms that will be prohibited.

    Home built firearms, including those built off 80% receivers/frames, that were not serialized by a licensed manufacture in accordance with the federal regulations will also be prohibited from possession. Engraving your own serial number at home will not exempt your firearm from this law.



    One more important point regarding the untraceable firearms law laid out in Section 17 (1) (b) and Section 17 (2), is that there are no exemptions for FFLs. In the Sections related to unfinished receivers/frames, there are some FFL exemptions but not for untraceable firearm possession. If it passes, FFLs will have a lot of inventory purging to do or risk felony charges and losing their FFL.

    Here are the two Sections I've discussed here:

    “(b) ‘Untraceable firearm’ means a firearm other than an antique
    firearm for which the sale or distribution chain, from a licensed
    retailer to the point of first retail sale, cannot be traced by a law
    enforcement agency by means of a serial number affixed to the
    firearm by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer in accordance
    with 18 U.S.C. 923(i) and all regulations issued under the authority
    of 18 U.S.C. 923(i), including but not limited to 27 C.F.R. 478.92.



    “(2) A person who knowingly possesses, manufactures, assembles,
    causes to be manufactured or assembled, imports into this state, offers
    for sale, sells or transfers an untraceable firearm commits a Class B
    felony.

    I will leave you with this thought. I have seen estimates that there are 3 million plus firearms owned by Oregonians. Hundreds of thousands of these firearms will be illegal to possess if SB 978-5 passes. Owners will in many cases unknowingly be committing a Class B Felony simply for continuing to possess a family firearm they have owned for decades and possibly passed down through generations.
     
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  12. Luzelines

    Luzelines
    SW Portland
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    I believe even more outlandish is the above detail, which as i read it will make it a felony crime to posses a baseball bat at a municipally owned or managed baseball field???
     
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  13. tkdguy

    tkdguy
    Portland, Oregon
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    Which Section number is this?
     
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  14. Sisu

    Sisu
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    If you can follow the mumbo jumbo, it's attached to this pile:

    LOCAL AUTHORITY TO REGULATE FIREARMS IN PUBLIC
    BUILDINGS
    “SECTION 25.
    (1) A city, a county, a metropolitan service district organized under ORS chapter 268, or a port operating a commercial service airport with at least 2 million passenger boardings per calendar year may adopt an ordinance limiting or precluding the use of the affirmative defense described in ORS 166.370 (3)(g) concerning the possession of firearms in public buildings, within each entity’s respective jurisdiction, by persons licensed to carry a concealed handgun under ORS 166.291 and 166.292.
    (2) A school district, college or university may adopt a policy limiting or precluding the use
    of the affirmative defense described in ORS 166.370 (3)(g) concerning the possession
    of firearms in public buildings by persons licensed to carry a concealed handgun under ORS 166.291 and 166.292. SB 978-5 4/8/19
    Proposed Amendments to SB 978
    Page 35
    (3) An entity that adopts an ordinance or policy under this section shall post a sign, visible to the public, identifying all locations where the affirmative defense described in ORS 166.370 (3)(g) is limited or precluded.
    (4) As used in this section, ‘public building’ has the meaning given that term in ORS 166.360.
    SECTION 26.ORS 166.360 is amended to read:166.360. As used in ORS 166.360 to 166.380, unless the context requires otherwise:
    (1) ‘Capitol building’ means the Capitol, the State Office Building, the State Library Building, the Labor and Industries Building, the State Transportation Building, the Agriculture Building or the Public Service Building and includes any new buildings which may be constructed on the same grounds as an addition to the group of buildings listed in this subsection.
    (2) ‘Court facility’ means a courthouse or that portion of any other building occupied by a circuit court, the Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court or the Oregon Tax Court or occupied by
    personnel related to the operations of those courts, or in which activities related to the operations of those courts take place.
    (3) ‘Judge’ means a judge of a circuit court, the Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court, the Oregon Tax Court, a municipal court, a probate court or a juvenile court or a justice of the peace.
    “(4) ‘Judicial district’ means a circuit court district established under ORS 3.012 or a justice of the peace district established under ORS 51.020.
    “(5) ‘Juvenile court’ has the meaning given that term in ORS 419A.004.
    “(6) ‘Loaded firearm’ means:
    “(a) A breech-loading firearm in which there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in or attached to the firearm including but not limited to, in a chamber, magazine or clip which is attached to the firearm.
    “(b) A muzzle-loading firearm which is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball, shot or projectile in the barrel or cylinder.
    “(7) ‘Local court facility’ means the portion of a building in which a justice court, a municipal court, a probate court or a juvenile court conducts business, during the hours in which the court operates.
    “(8) ‘Probate court’ has the meaning given that term in ORS 111.005.
    “(9) ‘Public building’ means:
    “(a)(A) A hospital,;
    “(B)A capitol building[,];
    “(C)A public or private school, as defined in ORS 339.315[,];
    “(D)A college or university[,];

    “(E)A city hall;[or]“
    (F)The residence of any state official elected by the state
    at large, [and the grounds adjacent to each such building.]
    if the residence is owned by the state; or
    (G)The [ term also includes that] portion of any other building owned, occupied or controlled by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation,as defined in ORS 297.405, other than a court facility[.];
    “(b) The grounds, other than a parking area, adjacent to a building described in paragraph (a) of this subsection;
    “(c) Real property owned by a college or university; or

    “(d) The passenger terminal, and grounds adjacent to the passenger terminal, of a commercial service airport that has at least 1 million passenger boardings per calendar year.
    “(10) ‘Weapon’ means:
    “(a) A firearm;
    “(b) Any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slingshot, metal knuckles or any similar instrument or a knife, other than an ordinary pocketknife with a blade less than four inches in length, the use of which could inflict injury upon a person or property;
    “(c) Mace, tear gas, pepper mace or any similar deleterious
    agent as defined in ORS 163.211;
    “(d) An electrical stun gun or any similar instrument;
    “(e) A tear gas weapon as defined in ORS 163.211;
    “(f) A club, bat, baton, billy club, bludgeon, knobkerrie, nunchaku,
    nightstick, truncheon or any similar instrument, the use of which could inflict injury upon a person or property; or

    “(g) A dangerous or
    deadly weapon as those terms are defined in ORS
    161.015
    These tyrants are too much. Perhaps it's time to occupy Salem? ANTIFA riots and causes millions of $$$$ of damages in PDX with nary an arrest, yet law abiding gun owners are being turned into felons. I hate what these a sswholes have done to my state.
     
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  15. Jcon268

    Jcon268
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    It is not going to be enough to fight SB978. We have to TIE IT to the people who created it. These people are writing highly dangerous bills. Felonies come with prison sentences. This ruins lives. Anyone who would write laws with such reckless abandon cannot be tolerated to continue serving in the Senate OR House.
     
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  16. NW Backpacker

    NW Backpacker
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    Oregon Gun Owners letter in the testimony:
    https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2019R1/Downloads/CommitteeMeetingDocument/186639
     
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  17. Sisu

    Sisu
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    As long as the "TIE IT" part is a very heavy boulder next to a very deep pond - I'm in. The Blue Smurfs own this state. I've lived through every as shat who came before and after McCall; this madness was a long time coming but it's been very clear exactly who is behind it. Unless gun owners take to the streets, or the NRA gets an injunction, Oregonians are only headed for more drawn out insanity and lawlessness via the commie rat ̶b̶a̶s̶t̶a̶r̶d̶ infestation. The only thing to do is stay and literally fight - and I do mean that - or leave.
     
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  18. arakboss

    arakboss
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  19. Jonnyuma

    Jonnyuma
    A Dirty Little Town in NW Oregon
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    T-ball kills... outlaw it immediately. Finally something we can all agree on. o_O
     
  20. SUPER X

    SUPER X
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    A narrated version and explanation of the bill done by a attractive female on YouTube would get attention , heck 2 vids with opposite genders to TO carch a larger audience.
     

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