No training at all.

[oldcorpgunny]

As to the O.P's hypothetical situation, hearing several gunshots at danger close, I'm getting my Old Broken Arse to cover and looking for exits other then the front door. I'm NOT moving to the sound of gunfire until I find no other exit but the front door, then it's game on! Getting trapped inside a box with no escape isn't gonna happen, so, I'm crab walking my squeaky crunchy joints to that exit with my gun hand at the ready, scanning the situation to determine where and how many threats I can see, then making my move to avoid contact if at all possible, if not, then gonna go loud! At this point, it should be obvious who the shooters are, and any good guys with their thumb up their jacksey, so I make verbal contact and a warning, and I boogie the hell outta there Rikky Tic! Any shootin while I am making my move gets double tapped to the snot locker, do my signature dutch roll, and I'm outta there!

I believe that you have a plan that will work very well for you. It's pretty much what I would do.

 

[Ura-Ki]

The real issue that all the politicians and most liberals are terrified to address is that one particular racial minority is responsible for most of the gun violence. They can dance around it all they want, but all they're doing is avoiding the real issue. Guns, even loaded ones are simply a tool. A baseball bat can be used to hit a baseball or a human head. The human being that is handling the firearm or baseball bat determines how and when it is used. Inanimate objects can't make a decision.

Zacklies!
We see it time and time again, most crime, and most violence is committed by the same single Race of people!
The smaller groups of minorities don't even make up 1/3 the numbers combined of the first group, the prison population ( And Grave Yard) bears this out if one were to actually look! THAT piece of info NEVER gets pointed out, it's somehow Racist to point it out to people that ONE group is responsible for so much mayhem, and we gotta punish innocent folk who have nothing at all to do with the problems! Look at Portland, they not only defunded the police, but broke up the Gang Units and made them into Gun Violence Units, that don't actually do anything but lay out the yellow tape and draw the chalk lines around the bodies! When I was a kid, the PBOT had a massive gang unit, but they didn't do very much, we had YUGE numbers of drive buy's nightly, and the wailing mothers on the T.V. was a constant! In Short, NOTHING was ever done to stop anything, there wasn't really any outreach or any other programs to try and help or to turn the youth away from crime! At the same time, that race continues it's circular pattern of self destruction, it's so ingrained in every facet of their lives that it would take a miracle to stop it! The Music, the Family patterns, Lack of a Father, social interactions, sports, and celebrity personalities ALL contribute to a very toxic situation of self destruction! They truly are their own worst enemy, a construct of their own creation! They blame everyone else for their troubles, but cannot see the truth they have hidden from themselves, it's all "DA MAN'S" Fault, gotta blame whitey for holdin us down, holdin us back, Dey's all Racist Crackers!

 

[FireArm]

uummmm what?!?!

 

[titsonritz]

It was a kids safety class... "Stop, dont touch, tell an adult" kind of stuff.

That is the NRA Eddie Eagle stuff and fine for K-1 or 2, now let's continue the life saving effort with proper knowledge that actually work in the real world.

.

 

[CLT65]

It's not a race issue; it's a cultural issue, and a complex one with a long history and plenty of blame to go around.

Just as it's unfair to blame honest gun owners for the actions of gun-owning criminals, it's just as unfair to blame honest members of any one people-group for the actions of the bad actors within that group.

 

[bbbass]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It doesn't say anything about training. The problem is too many generations have gotten away from firearm ownership and use and thus forgotten the awesome responsibility that goes with it.

Dr. Robert J. Cottrol is the editor of the book "Gun Control and the Constitution: Sources and Explorations on the Second Amendment." And Cottrol, a Second Amendment expert and legal historian, is the Harold Paul Green Research Professor of Law at George Washington University. He says the words "well regulated" refer to proficiency and top-notch training. https://insidesources.com/well-regulated-really-mean/

^^^ This has always been my understanding of the term "well-regulated" to mean both armed and trained.

It wasn't the politicians that wrote it...

Yeah, but they wanted to...

 

[titsonritz]

It's not a race issue; it's a cultural issue, and a complex one with a long history and plenty of blame to go around.

Just as it's unfair to blame honest gun owners for the actions of gun-owning criminals, it's just as unfair to blame honest members of any one people-group for the actions of the bad actors within that group.

^^^This 100%. Cultural issues and history may be complex but reducing crime is simple. Hunt down, try, convict and lockup or kill the scumbags doing the dirt and surprise...crime plummets compared to the revolving door approach.

 

[bradsteen]

The left will throw a fit at the tiniest mention of abstinence in sex education, but they demand complete abstinence when it comes to things like firearms.

"They're all going to do it, you can't stop them" (partly but not entirely true btw, but that's beside the point).

When it comes to guns though, they put the blinders on. Whether they're around guns or not, every kid should be taught the basics of firearm safety- what to do, and especially NOT do if they encounter a gun.

THIS! Every time someone who is anti-gun brings up gun control, I always hit them with this point. If we don't teach our kids, they still learn about guns! But instead of learning from a certified instructor who can answer their questions and help them understand the nuances, they learn from an "influencer" on Youtube or TickTock who is a self-described "expert".

 

[OldBroad44]

It's not a race issue; it's a cultural issue, and a complex one with a long history and plenty of blame to go around.

Just as it's unfair to blame honest gun owners for the actions of gun-owning criminals, it's just as unfair to blame honest members of any one people-group for the actions of the bad actors within that group.

Right. Thomas Sowell, noted conservative economist, historian, author, and senior fellow at Hoover Institute, now more than 90 and still going strong, who grew up mostly in Harlem, describes an all black community that was generally safe. He never heard a gunshot there back then. And schools were adequate and had the same standards as white public schools. Nothing like now . and most black families had two parents. He tracks the wreck of black families and neighborhoods to the LBJ started welfare policies that paid women with children but only if there was no husband or man around. Among poor people where jobs were rare and most men were inconsistent providers, a single unmarried mom on welfare was economically better off than most women married to men with illegal or inadequate jobs. The start of the increase in out of wedlock children in both black and white families started with the LBJ policies and continue to this day. A young white friend of mine and his special lady friend had already decided to marry when she became pregnant. But they couldn't because it would have meant losing medical coverage of the child. His job had no bennies. Unmarried, her child was eliible for Oregon health coverage. They were able to marry only a couple years later after he got a job with full medical benefits. Part of the biology that binds human men and women together is that on average, it requires two parents to raise children. The children are born so helpless and take so long to mature and require so much attention that the average woman simply can't do it alone. At least, not well enough to raise kids competitive with their peers. And men are willing to marry in part because the woman and children need them, and they are treated by their mate and children as someone important and essential to the family.

These days, most of the homicides are associated with gangs. Gangs can be white, black, Mexican, Chinese, etc. And since they control drugs and other illegal activities the stakes are high and there is much violence over control of the illegal activities that are often nearly the only jobs in ghetto communities these days. Where gangs are present, kids may have the choice of joining a gang or getting killed by one. So gangs represent a special legal problem.

 

[titsonritz]

Right. Thomas Sowell, noted conservative economist, historian, author, and senior fellow at Hoover Institute, now more than 90 and still going strong, who grew up mostly in Harlem, describes an all black community that was generally safe.

I can listen to Mr. Sowell and Walter Williams (R.I.P.) for hours on end and have.

 

[titsonritz]

 

[ma96782]

LOL.
Since it's about hitting what the intended target is.
Think of all of the innocent lives that could be SAVED. IF, the Govt. mandated that drive by shooters and gangbangers get "training".

Yeah......that makes sense.

Rrrrrrright......

Aloha, Mark

 

[OldBroad44]

I can listen to Mr. Sowell and Walter Williams (R.I.P.) for hours on end and have.

Nearly all Thomas Sowells' books are available as free audio books on YouTube. His memoirs is especially interesting and entertaining. Hilarious. Very courageous resilient character. Possibly the greatest conservative philosopher of our time. Constantly upsets liberals and black leaders for being conservative while black. He simply laughs and points out that leaders of lagging groups nearly always push policies that are bad for these groups, as the groups advancing and succeeding would make the "leaders" unneccessary. Sowells' interviews are full of his big irreverent laugh. All Sowell books are whine-free zones .

He was born in the Jim Crow South. Family moved to Harlem when he was in early grade school. Lived across the street from a public library. Got into one of the elite NY high schools but dropped out because of broken and toxic family and economic problems. Got a job as a Western Union messenger. Had a hobby of photography. Joined Marines. Worked as photographer in marines. The bases put hum back in the South were he couldnt use the restaurants, etc. After marines Went to Howard U, one of the Historically Black Colleges and Universities for a year but little education was to be had there. Applied to and was admitted to Harvard, with enough support to be able to make ends meet along with vet education benefits. Admission officer told S frankly that he didn't think S would be able to do the work but admitted him anyway. And S did find it a huge shock. But adapted. Got a BA from H and a PhD in economics from Chicago. Taught at Cornell and other places.

All his YouTube video interviews at Uncommon Knowledge, the Hoover Institute sponsored program, are also excellent. And Robinson is the best interviewer I've ever heard.

 

[Koda]

I checked out some Sowells talks today because of this thread and will be listening to a lot more now. Thank you.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Zacklies!
We see it time and time again, most crime, and most violence is committed by the same single Race of people!
The smaller groups of minorities don't even make up 1/3 the numbers combined of the first group, the prison population ( And Grave Yard) bears this out if one were to actually look! THAT piece of info NEVER gets pointed out, it's somehow Racist to point it out to people that ONE group is responsible for so much mayhem, and we gotta punish innocent folk who have nothing at all to do with the problems! Look at Portland, they not only defunded the police, but broke up the Gang Units and made them into Gun Violence Units, that don't actually do anything but lay out the yellow tape and draw the chalk lines around the bodies! When I was a kid, the PBOT had a massive gang unit, but they didn't do very much, we had YUGE numbers of drive buy's nightly, and the wailing mothers on the T.V. was a constant! In Short, NOTHING was ever done to stop anything, there wasn't really any outreach or any other programs to try and help or to turn the youth away from crime! At the same time, that race continues it's circular pattern of self destruction, it's so ingrained in every facet of their lives that it would take a miracle to stop it! The Music, the Family patterns, Lack of a Father, social interactions, sports, and celebrity personalities ALL contribute to a very toxic situation of self destruction! They truly are their own worst enemy, a construct of their own creation! They blame everyone else for their troubles, but cannot see the truth they have hidden from themselves, it's all "DA MAN'S" Fault, gotta blame whitey for holdin us down, holdin us back, Dey's all Racist Crackers!

Your response would be better if you didn't hold back, but instead gave your personal opinion on this subject. Actually it's quite excellent!!

 

[oldcorpgunny]

It's not a race issue; it's a cultural issue, and a complex one with a long history and plenty of blame to go around.

Just as it's unfair to blame honest gun owners for the actions of gun-owning criminals, it's just as unfair to blame honest members of any one people-group for the actions of the bad actors within that group.

Oddly, it is a racial issue because it is only a single race that perpetuates the cultural issues that bring such grief and shame to their community.

 

[titsonritz]

I checked out some Sowells talks today because of this thread and will be listening to a lot more now. Thank you.

Check out Walter Williams "Suffer No Fools".

 

[Koda]

Check out Walter Williams "Suffer No Fools".

i will, but i got a lot of listening to do now....

 

[CLT65]

Oddly, it is a racial issue because it is only a single race that perpetuates the cultural issues that bring such grief and shame to their community.

One racial group may have more cultural issues than another, but it's still a cultural issue.

The great Americans being discussed in this very thread prove that it's not a "racial" issue.

Different racial groups generally do have different prevailing cultures, but not every member of that group lives the same. For example, would you rather have neighbors along the lines of Colion Noir, or some white saggy-pants gangbangers? My guess is that most of us would be far more culturally comfortable living next to Colion Noir. Ultimately it's culture, not race. Making assumptions based on race can sometimes lead us to some very wrong conclusions.

 

[OldBroad44]

Oddly, it is a racial issue because it is only a single race that perpetuates the cultural issues that bring such grief and shame to their community.

Actually, no. What is true is exactly the opposite. See Thomas Sowell's book Black Rednecks and White Liberals.

and other Sowell books on the patterns of cultural migration.

Sowell documents that the 'black culture' associated with chronically unsuccessful black American communities in the North is the same as Southern white redneck culture, which in turn came from backward areas of Britain. Including the aversion to education and contemot for work, and even the speech patterns such as "I be," "You be" etc. And that redneck culture has done the whites who inherited it no more good than the blacks. The white southern redneck communities are just as unsuccessful and have educational unattainnent just as bad as the northern black redneck communities. By contrast many of the most successful American blacks are Jamaican, and did not inherit redneck culture even though they experienced slavery and discrimination. Many other noteworthy American blacks are descendants of Southern black slaves who came under the influence of Northern Missionaries, black or white, usually Congregationalists, who went south after the civil war and set up boarding schools for freed slaves and taught traditional puritan values of valuing education and hard work, reading, using standard English, honoring all labor including physical labor, etc. Many other successful American blacks are recent immigrants or their offspring and never experienced black redneck culture or slavery. The white UK redneck communuties are still impoverised. And if a kid excells in school he is beaten up by his peers for "acting upper class", just like black kids who excel in school in Harlem today may be beaten up for "acting white."

In various other books Sowell traces the behavior of various communities as they emigrated to various places. Ashkenazi Jews, for example, who value education highly and were familiar with commerce, usually set up shops wherever they settled. And their children, who spoke the language of the new land, grew bigger businesses and became professionals. They were often heavily discriminated against. (Short summary of a Jewish Holiday: "They tried to kill us. We survived. Let's eat.") Jewish culture seems to contain little expectation of life or treatment by others being fair. Instead it focuses on doing the best you can with the available possibilities. A useful model, since life is mostly unfair for all of us. And none of us have all possible options. And resentment is a debilitating counterproductive emotion. About 3% of Americans are Jewish. About 33% of its Nobel Laureates are Jewish.

Germans who migrated to other places took tendency to honesty, appreciation of German language and interest in technology with them. And love of good beer. Wherever they went they created heavy industries, German newspapers, German language schools, and great breweries.

Chinese and Japanese wherever they emigrated set up shops and introduced more sophisticated business and financial practices . They work outrageously hard, become educated as soon as there is enough money to, etc. Like the other groups such as Jews who frequently out succeed natives, they are often heavily discriminated against. Sometimes even thrown out with nothing but the clothes on their backs. After which the communities that threw them out collapse and experience long term deterioration. But by two generations later, the Chinese/Jews/Germans/Armenians etc are thriving again in their new homes. What they have is human capital, including cultural values, knowledge, and skills that lead to success.