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Conflicted about this; I get the same feeling when I see a photo of the stump of a 3000 year old redwood harvested for lumber.
I understand your sentiments.
However, if the siding on my home or my exterior decks were cut from that same tree, I'd feel better about it. By the same token, if THAT head were hanging on MY wall, I'm confident there would be no conflict whatsoever!
 
Conflicted about this; I get the same feeling when I see a photo of the stump of a 3000 year old redwood harvested for lumber.
Same. I did steal this photo from a fellow member. Now we're the trees once really this big?

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If you ever get to hunt in Germany, you will learn about respect for the game taken. I learned a lot over there. To me every animal is a trophy. My hunting now is with a Canon camera. I don't need the meat. Give me a good ole ribeye any day of the week. I don't hate hunting, I just no longer do it.
 
Something about 68 racks on the wall that disheartens me. I've read the books and stories of all the great and even not so great hunters and woodsmen since I was a kid in the 50's, still drawn to them as the woods, mountains, and hunting have always been a major part of my life. Nonetheless, one thing that struck me as a kid and has only increased with age; The sheer gluttony that comes with the mind set of trophy / grand slam hunting. While I love the thrill of reading about the hunt, and can't resist reading about the new trophy score, Ironically, at the same time, I have dwindling respect for the hunter. I would not pass up a trophy, but just as thrilled to be out hunting and bagging a fat cow or even being skunked. I don't need hundreds of Kills, most of which I never even ate, to have lived a satisfied life as a hunter.
I often wonder if the practice of taking the biggest and best out of a herd is, in the long term, counter productive. Is it possible that by doing so we dilute the herd so those animals that normally wouldn't have a chance to mate are now in with the ladies?

I'm talking animals passing on their genetic traits so in future we see more animals with smaller racks/antlers. Genuine pondering on my part.
 
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I often wonder if the practice of taking the biggest and best out of a herd is, in the long term, counter productive. Is it possible that by doing so we dilute the herd so those animals that normally wouldn't have a chance to mate are now in with the ladies?

I'm talking animals passing on their genetic traits so in future we see more animals with smaller racks/antlers. Genuine pondering on my part.
I have to agree with you here.
 
There are too many dynamics at play managing game animals for me to armchair quarterback. This bull is obviously an older mature animal that has likely passed on his genes for several breeding seasons. He is likely to regress and no longer be king of the hill at some point.The draw and raffle systems to allow harvest of mature bulls like this, limits how many are actually killed. I am not sure spike only regs in WA are the way to go either. Who knows how many of this grand old bull's male offspring have been killed as spikes?
 
I think overall #s, bull to cow ratios, habitat quality and other factors are more relevant to producing quality animals as anything else. Where I tend to get in the weeds is how the state handles some of the things that contribute to the above. Like predator management.
 
I don't really understand the vitriol against hunters like this. They have goals. They pass on animals that don't have those higher standards, leaving them for other hunters to harvest. Without a personal standard, hunting becomes routine to them. Several of my friends fall into this category. They constantly try to do better every year and evaluate their hunts, looking for where they can improve.

Sour grapes? Jealousy?
 
Sour grapes? Jealousy?
It's tough to say. I was Googling around outside of this forum to see what folks had to say. There were a lot of pictures of this bull eating hay in people's yards and nicknaming it Yardbull. Whether those pictures were real or not??? Some said his family owns UPS, so he has enough money to buy governor's tags and tags for reservations. (If true, even I'm jealous of that. LOL) Lots of comments about how would this guy fare if he was on public land with an OTC tag. Several people who claimed to know him indicated he would do just fine as he was the real deal as a hunter. Nowhere did I see anything to indicate the hunter wasn't the nicest guy. I suppose his son didn't do him any favors by proclaiming him the "King of Elk Hunting" on his social media post.

Eighty-six bulls. That's a lot of bulls. Now that he has the world record, it will be interesting to see if he set other goals - maybe mule deer or kudu?
 
It's tough to say. I was Googling around outside of this forum to see what folks had to say. There were a lot of pictures of this bull eating hay in people's yards and nicknaming it Yardbull. Whether those pictures were real or not??? Some said his family owns UPS, so he has enough money to buy governor's tags and tags for reservations. (If true, even I'm jealous of that. LOL) Lots of comments about how would this guy fare if he was on public land with an OTC tag. Several people who claimed to know him indicated he would do just fine as he was the real deal as a hunter. Nowhere did I see anything to indicate the hunter wasn't the nicest guy. I suppose his son didn't do him any favors by proclaiming him the "King of Elk Hunting" on his social media post.

Eighty-six bulls. That's a lot of bulls. Now that he has the world record, it will be interesting to see if he set other goals - maybe mule deer or kudu?
Just read some stories on it. He has been tracking this bull for several years. He finally got a raffle tag (not an auction tag) in WA and definitely didn't waste it. No guides. I am super happy for him. Over 10k applications for that raffle, highest in the state. He got it on the last day, even sweeter. I never got a raffle draw when I was there.
 
Just read some stories on it. He has been tracking this bull for several years. He finally got a raffle tag (not an auction tag) in WA and definitely didn't waste it. No guides. I am super happy for him. Over 10k applications for that raffle, highest in the state. He got it on the last day, even sweeter. I never got a raffle draw when I was there.
I wonder how many raffle tickets he bought. My family has attended many RMEF banquets and Friends of NRA banquets over the past 25 years. People -always remark about how lucky we are since we have won quite a few guns. I tell people - "Ya know, it's funny. The first few years we spent about $100 and hardly won anything. Now, my wife and I between us probably spend about $400 in the games and raffles and win a gun as often as not. It takes money to win." We're not exactly rich people, but those are two charities we're not shy about supporting. In my case, especially if the beer is flowing. :s0140:

Heck. It would have been fun for me to just be part of his posse chasing that bull. Some of the best hunts I've been on were hunts where I didn't have a tag but was asked to come along to help guide*/pack/have fun. I've never killed a 300-inch bull, but I've helped pack out a 299-inch 6-pt. and a 330-inch 7X7 a few years apart. Both came from a draw unit that only took one preference point to draw at the time (20ish years ago). The guy that killed them can call a whole lot better than I can, has freakish eyesight and hearing, and is quite a bit younger than me. He's the primary person that got me started bow hunting at the ripe young age of forty. In the past 23 years since, I've gotten my name and picture in several national magazines - with somebody else's bull on my back. 😭 The only time I've been in a magazine posing with my own bull was Eastman's Hunting Journal with just a nice solid 5X5. I have had a few 300+ bulls in view, even got to full draw on one well over 300 inches. But I've never released an arrow at one. They didn't get that much bone on their heads by being stupid. (*guide in the sense of help spot/track/whatever - not an actual paid guide, cuz that would be ripping my friends off 😝)

Elk is my favorite game to chase. I have been guilty of passing up smaller bulls. Last year I had a fuzzy-horn spike walk up within 20 yards opening morning of bow season. It was only 9:00 a.m. and I was seeing a lot of elk. There was a bigger bull in the herd he was in, so I held off. Never had another shot opportunity all season. I kicked myself a little for the empty freezer but got to hunt a lot more than if I'd shot that spike.
 
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I often wonder if the practice of taking the biggest and best out of a herd is, in the long term, counter productive. Is it possible that by doing so we dilute the herd so those animals that normally wouldn't have a chance to mate are now in with the ladies?

I'm talking animals passing on their genetic traits so in future we see more animals with smaller racks/antlers. Genuine pondering on my part.
I often think about the same thing concerning the human species.... what with all the "safety police" runnin' around, mandatory bicycle helmets, and bubble wrap strewn all over everything fouling up all them deserved Darwin Awards......
 
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Suggest watching this video as it discusses deer hunting and African large game hunting using 8.6 subsonics.

View: https://youtu.be/xFlZ_NYKxj4?si=DKxPfXT2om5R9aq4

Lots of comments about how would this guy fare if he was on public land with an OTC tag.
I don't know, of course, but I would assume he WAS hunting on public land. His son's post indicated there was no guide and I think that's a condition of hunting most private ranches for trophy bulls. If on a reservation hunt, he probably wouldn't need a raffle tag, so I'm inclined to believe the bull was taken on public land. That would mean any of us could have had it hanging on our wall, IF we could draw the tag, and devote years to that one animal.:(
 
I don't know, of course, but I would assume he WAS hunting on public land. His son's post indicated there was no guide and I think that's a condition of hunting most private ranches for trophy bulls. If on a reservation hunt, he probably wouldn't need a raffle tag, so I'm inclined to believe the bull was taken on public land. That would mean any of us could have had it hanging on our wall, IF we could draw the tag, and devote years to that one animal.:(
Most of the hubbub I saw on Facebook posts indicated he got it on private property, and not necessarily a large ranch that would have guides on staff. I didn't see anyone claim this bull was on a reservation, but several of the others he killed were. Supposedly this bull was a local celebrity. There was no story from the hunter's side, so who knows. A guy I sort of know (we belonged to the same archery club and our wives are FB friends) posted some positive comments on the FB post and got some positive responses. He also got a ton of negative responses and, while not completely backpedaling, he did take more of a "wait and see" approach.

I sure wish the hunter would post his side of what went on, because he's not getting the benefit of the doubt from the locals in Washington where the bull was taken. It's sad to see some hunters taking so much gratification criticizing another hunter. I guess it has always been thus. Rifle hunters vs. blackpowder hunters vs. bowhunters vs. traditional bowhunters vs...

Again, I don't think his son's FB post proclaiming him the King of Elk Hunters was helpful at all.
 
I wonder how many raffle tickets he bought. My family has attended many RMEF banquets and Friends of NRA banquets over the past 25 years. People -always remark about how lucky we are since we have won quite a few guns. I tell people - "Ya know, it's funny. The first few years we spent about $100 and hardly won anything. Now, my wife and I between us probably spend about $400 in the games and raffles and win a gun as often as not. It takes money to win." We're not exactly rich people, but those are two charities we're not shy about supporting. In my case, especially if the beer is flowing. :s0140:

Heck. It would have been fun for me to just be part of his posse chasing that bull. Some of the best hunts I've been on were hunts where I didn't have a tag but was asked to come along to help guide*/pack/have fun. I've never killed a 300-inch bull, but I've helped pack out a 299-inch 6-pt. and a 330-inch 7X7 a few years apart. Both came from a draw unit that only took one preference point to draw at the time (20ish years ago). The guy that killed them can call a whole lot better than I can, has freakish eyesight and hearing, and is quite a bit younger than me. He's the primary person that got me started bow hunting at the ripe young age of forty. In the past 23 years since, I've gotten my name and picture in several national magazines - with somebody else's bull on my back. 😭 The only time I've been in a magazine posing with my own bull was Eastman's Hunting Journal with just a nice solid 5X5. I have had a few 300+ bulls in view, even got to full draw on one well over 300 inches. But I've never released an arrow at one. They didn't get that much bone on their heads by being stupid. (*guide in the sense of help spot/track/whatever - not an actual paid guide, cuz that would be ripping my friends off 😝)

Elk is my favorite game to chase. I have been guilty of passing up smaller bulls. Last year I had a fuzzy-horn spike walk up within 20 yards opening morning of bow season. It was only 9:00 a.m. and I was seeing a lot of elk. There was a bigger bull in the herd he was in, so I held off. Never had another shot opportunity all season. I kicked myself a little for the empty freezer but got to hunt a lot more than if I'd shot that spike.
Exactly. You get it!
 
Most of the hubbub I saw on Facebook posts indicated he got it on private property, and not necessarily a large ranch that would have guides on staff. I didn't see anyone claim this bull was on a reservation, but several of the others he killed were. Supposedly this bull was a local celebrity. There was no story from the hunter's side, so who knows. A guy I sort of know (we belonged to the same archery club and our wives are FB friends) posted some positive comments on the FB post and got some positive responses. He also got a ton of negative responses and, while not completely backpedaling, he did take more of a "wait and see" approach.

I sure wish the hunter would post his side of what went on, because he's not getting the benefit of the doubt from the locals in Washington where the bull was taken. It's sad to see some hunters taking so much gratification criticizing another hunter. I guess it has always been thus. Rifle hunters vs. blackpowder hunters vs. bowhunters vs. traditional bowhunters vs...

Again, I don't think his son's FB post proclaiming him the King of Elk Hunters was helpful at all.
One of my friends is a kokanee legend celebrity on a certain lake here. He gets a lot of angry and bitter posts and accusations of illegal fishing, especially when he catches over 100. Some claim he is over the limit and complain to the game wardens, but there is no limit. A game warden stopped by on Saturday, knows him by name. My friend is 100% legit. He is that good, and those that aren't are suspicious as hell just because they can't match that.

He is also a trophy elk bow hunter, with a sponsorship. Very fun and nice guy with lots of 320+ class elk under his belt. Public land. We will be competing against each other for muleys next year in rifle season for a case of beer, since that is my favorite species to hunt. Most of my new friends out here are hardcore hunters and/or fisherman.
 

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