New AR problem- trigger not resetting.

[Ironbar]

OK, so first off thank you to Rick for taking me out the DRRC today to get the new AR test fired. Here's the problem.

Every few rounds, the trigger wouldn't reset. The only way we could get the trigger to reset was to rack the bolt, and eject the round in the chamber. We took the upper off and tested the trigger and it worked fine. I pulled the trigger and trapped it back, hammer dropped, Rick reset the hammer, and we did again and again. Replaced the upper, and same thing. It would fire a couple rounds and then not reset. It got to the point were it failed reset after every fired round.

The trigger is the Black Rain Ordnance drop in trigger, NOT a standard mil-spec.

Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks!

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[jbett98]

Was it feeding rounds properly?

 

[bolus]

Here is a guy that is having what sounds like a similar problem with a BRO rifle (I assume has the same trigger)

 

[bennyl]

usually the problem with resets is the disconnector spring, but if you're saying that the trigger catches and its fine then i might think it has to do with the buffer and or bcg. My suggestion is to swap out to a light buffer spring and maybe put in a different BCG. Let me know if this works.

 

[erudne]

Lube the heck out of it and cycle it 100 times

 

[edslhead]

This probably has nothing to do with your problem, but here's a link to my thread where I destroyed a perfectly good BR trigger.

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/weld-on-a-trigger.202985/

It was doing the exact same thing as yours after I "customized" it.

 

[jbett98]

I had a slightly similar problem and it turned out that the mag release button wasn't screwed far enough down the mag release bolt threads.
You racked a round, it fired but it wouldn't fire the second round.
The rounds were hanging up on the mag catch inside the mag well, causing a dwell in the bolt cycle.
I turned the mag release bolt two more turns and then the bolt was flush with the outside of the mag release button.

 

[Ironbar]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'll be checking out all possibilities this evening and then get back to you!

 

[Velzey]

Was it functioning 100% before the trigger swap?

And boooooo to Mil Spec lowest bidder junk!


Is this what you installed?

Im thinking its not a trigger problem. Its a gas problem..

 

[jluck]

Isn't Mil-spec basically loose enough tolerances to fit a wide (any-all) M16/M4 platforms? People always speak like it's top notch and it's more like acceptably sloppy. .. From my understanding I want way better than "Mil-spec".

 

[eldbillbo]

The nice thing about about having lots of parts is trial and error . If you can swop out the lower with a different trigger or drop in a basic ar15 trigger ("mils spec" trigger for a Ar15 is there such a thing since the Military does not use ar15s they use M16s ) then that narrows it down to upper or lower, I'm leaning on it being a gas issue as well wouldn't happen have one of those set screw or clamp on blocks those things are almost more problems than they are worth. upside down disco spring can do funny things with a trigger but does not sound like its the issue here . As well as other issues like out of spec parts like whats been mentioned and there is always the weird stuff too but start with the basics and see what comes up

 

[jluck]

I was thinking upside down or not full seated disco spring also.

 

[U8395279]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'll be checking out all possibilities this evening and then get back to you!

Well, I would not try making any modifications to the trigger with a file. That would no doubt void the warranty.

Worse case scenario: if trying all the other suggestions does not help, you should simply return it under warranty,

Give BRO Customer Service a call. They may know the cause of the problem right off the bat.

According to the BRO Warranty Statement, the trigger group is under warranty until you die:


WARRANTY STATEMENT

All Black Rain Ordnance, Inc. products carry a 100% satisfaction guarantee against defects in original materials and workmanship. If your Black Rain Ordnance, Inc. product shows evidence of such defects, Black Rain Ordnance, Inc. will make every accommodation to fix, repair, or replace your product in the most expeditious and inexpensive manner possible. Black Rain Ordnance, Inc. does not warranty products or damage caused to our products by the correct or incorrect installation of other manufacturer's products. Be sure to retain your sales slip as proof of purchase date when making a claim.

SCOPE OF WARRANTY

BLACK RAIN ORDNANCE, INC. products are warranted to be free from defective materials and workmanship for life of the original purchaser. BLACK RAIN ORDNANCE, INC. obligation under this warranty shall be limited to (1) repairing or (2) replacing any product upon inspection at BLACK RAIN ORDNANCE, INC. and based on its discretion, is found to defective in material or in workmanship. This warranty is limited and does not extend to: careless handling, abuse and misuse, unauthorized adjustments or modifications, use of improper ammunition, excessive or unreasonable use, ordinary wear & tear, rust or corrosion, and barrel obstruction. Repairs are warranted for the duration of the original warranty and applies only to factory built products.




.

 

[Ironbar]

Gentlemen, although it's a BRO trigger, it was not purchased from BRO. It's one of the triggers from JSE Surplus with the BRO logo milled off. It is not under any warranty, and I haven't even established that it's the trigger that's the problem.

I'll know more tomorrow when I meet up with Rick to try out a couple other uppers on my lower to see if the problem persists.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I assume when you operate the charging handle manually the trigger will reset, correct? What buffer and buffer spring are you using? Using a carbine buffer tube which are designed to operate more gassy carbines, you may have too much resistance to operate a rifle length gas system. Also what ammo are you using? Stuff like PMC Bronze and Tula .223 are notoriously underpowered compared to say M193 or M855 5.56 ammo.

I've shot thousands of PMC with nary a problem in both of my AR's..... can't say that for Tula or Wolf.... since I have not had to buy basement ammo....

 

[Ironbar]

I assume when you operate the charging handle manually the trigger will reset, correct? What buffer and buffer spring are you using? Using a carbine buffer tube which are designed to operate more gassy carbines, you may have too much resistance to operate a rifle length gas system. Also what ammo are you using? Stuff like PMC Bronze and Tula .223 are notoriously underpowered compared to say M193 or M855 5.56 ammo.

This is correct. When charging the handle manually, the trigger resets every time.

I am using the buffer and spring that came from Palmetto with the Magpul CTR stock lower build kit. Like this one: http://palmettostatearmory.com/cata...tegory/1/id/1717/s/ctr-lower-build-kit-black/

Ammo was American Eagle 5.56 55gr.

 

[oli700]

Likely your disconnector sear surface is out of spec. I had this before in an AR and beat my head against the wall because it worked fine for a longtime.
I actually got help figuring it out from the folks at CMC triggers

At first mine would only do it on hot rounds , full NATO speed......could not figure it out and still don't really know why just these
Then it started doing it with light plinking rounds.
I could not replicate by manually cycling at first but after a while of the problem I could replicate it whenever I wanted manually but with the slightest nudge it would reset
At the end it would stop every 5 rounds and it didn't seem to matter when or what was being cycled.
Put in a new disconnecctor and fixed

Just something to consider

 

[rick benjamin]

My IMI ammo in Ironbar's rifle...
My upper swap with Ironbar's lower?
My lower swap with Ironbar's upper?
Will the trigger reset issue isolate, vanish?
Buffer Spring?
Trigger group?
Stay tuned for the next chapter...

 

[Velzey]

Building a rifle and then having problems with it only makes you better!

 

[Riot]

Question:

Does the HAMMER reset? Can you place it on SAFE while this is happening?

You should be able to feel the hammer tension as you pull the bolt carrier assembly back. My guess is a loose pin in the trigger assembly. I've watched many ARs do funky stuff from bad sear pins and shaved off trigger catches (going Full Auto, not resetting, etc.).

It has been my experience that anything you modify or replace is the issue...so if it has an aftermarket drop-in trigger assembly, put in a regular trigger kit and see if that fixes it. My money is on that.

Some things to can do to reproduce the issue...

1) Fire a few rounds in rapid succession.
2) Intentionally attempt to hold down the trigger between rounds after you fire.
3) Intentionally attempt to "slap" the trigger when you fire.

Once the problem is reproduced, keep the barrel pointed up and down range- being very careful since the hammer is probably touching the firing pin or may fall and strike the firing pin- (and since you probably can't place it on SAFE). Remove the rear receiver pin and remove the trigger assembly and inspect it.