Looking for a new high quality safe

[IronMonster]

so I have a pretty good Fort Knox safe. It's got a 1/4" solid steel door and I think 10 ga body construction. In the world of gun safes it woul be considered a pretty good one but I want something better. I would guess this one is around 4 feet wide and three feet deep and a little over 6 feet tall. I want to stay roughly in the same footprint. Looks are not important, spray painted black is fine with me but I want something that has a least one anti torch barrier (stainless steel or concrete ) and at least a 1/2" plate door. The interior can be bare. I don't care about plush and fancy. My budget is roughly 4- 5 grand. I went out to Noethwest Safes and talked to the owner, the one he would like to sell me seems like it fits the bill but is $8,000

Is there anything else I should be looking at? Recommendations?

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[solv3nt]

Sturdy safe. 7ga steel. Made in America.

 

[IronMonster]

I actually have built a sturdy one in the past, made from 3/4 plate and used a real vault door. Problem is I can't do it for what one costs. For what's involved in building a safe they are actually remarkably cheap. It would cost me far more and I would end up with less most likely

 

[B5Ben]

Sturdy safe. 7ga steel. Made in America.

Sturdysafe.com

Call and talk to these guys. I bought one and love it. 7 Ga steel is the standard on all safes, 4 Ga is an option and I'm sure they would be more than happy to build to suit. I cant say enough. They arent the plushest safe on the market, but its a safe and will do its job to perfection.

 

[jbett98]

Could you armor up the safe you now have?

 

[boogerhook]

Amsec makes good ones
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amsec-RF-Se...195?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac6c1b3fb

 

[evltwn]

Rogue Safe in Medford Oregon. Worth the money.

 

[Liberty97045]

I'm not going to recommend a brand but I would like to offer some insights for you to consider.

Only a fool would attack the door, there are many inexpensive metal cutting tools that will zip through the 10 to 7 Gauge metal on the sides.

<broken link removed>

Paying a premium for a BA door is in my opinion a waste of money.
Your money is better spent on size an fire rating.

You can protect your new safe from burglars by going over the top on mounting. Put the safe in an alcove or corner where it will be more difficult to attack. If you have an home security system add a panic or trembler switch to limit the time someone has to work on it.

 

[IronMonster]

I don't want to say what I bought, (no sense making it easy for someone) but I will say it cost $6500, twice what I wanted to spend and it weighs 5000 lbs. It's the best safe i could justify and feel pretty good about what I bought. Now if I could just feel good about what it cost.

 

[Sstrand]

I want to build a fire resistant (proof) room in a corner of my basement.
What level of fire resistance is adequate?? 1 hour, 2 hour.
Suggestions please

Sheldon

 

[IronMonster]

I have talked to two guys who had safes go through fires, both said that even though the safes where fire protected the guns were pretty much ruined anyway. Combination of smoke, water, heat and trauma and all the supposed fire protection did squat. These where total loss house fires though. I imagin protection in a relativly small fire would be diffrent

 

[evltwn]

When you look at the "big box" store safes, check to see if they include wallboard in the lining.

Heat + wallboard=steam. Congrats. You have locked your heirlooms in a sauna.

 

[MarkSBG]

That is the point of the gyp board. Boiling the water in the gyp requires energy that would otherwise be absorbed in the safe contents. Are saunas good for guns? Not for extended time, but guns are made out of blues steel, not sugar.

If you are looking for a good safe look at the gap between the body. A tight gap and a door that closes tightly will keep more heated gas out of the safe. The gap on most safes is so large that the gases pass through and any insulation effects of the walls are removed.

 

[motoman98]

Sturdysafe uses real insulation to keep out heat, not wallboard that tends to keep it in.

 

[Strykervet]

so I have a pretty good Fort Knox safe. It's got a 1/4" solid steel door and I think 10 ga body construction. In the world of gun safes it woul be considered a pretty good one but I want something better. I would guess this one is around 4 feet wide and three feet deep and a little over 6 feet tall. I want to stay roughly in the same footprint. Looks are not important, spray painted black is fine with me but I want something that has a least one anti torch barrier (stainless steel or concrete ) and at least a 1/2" plate door. The interior can be bare. I don't care about plush and fancy. My budget is roughly 4- 5 grand. I went out to Noethwest Safes and talked to the owner, the one he would like to sell me seems like it fits the bill but is $8,000

Is there anything else I should be looking at? Recommendations?

Go back to NW Safe and speak to the son. Tell him what you have to work with and that you are a hard sell and want the best. Tell him you don't mind scratch and dent provided that's all it is --cosmetic damage. They'll even include the touchup paint. Mine had pretty bad scratches on it but the paint fixed it right up and you can hardly tell. Had I repainted the whole thing it would be like new but I don't care.

One thing is the "right ones" are 6000 pounds empty, so be prepared. Bolting down isn't completly necessary with these (and they don't recommend it and neither does UL or insurance due to the weight). They can't be stolen with a regular truck and snatch strap and Tommy gates won't lift 'em. If you install it on an exterior wall in a corner or between two other safes, it makes it even harder to break, almost impossible.

For 5-6K you should be able to get the largest Original TL30x6 they make, delivered and installed, with both combo lock AND key lock (don't settle for just one lock on these!). It is WELL worth it. The door is several inches and the steel in these walls alone are thicker than your door is, not counting concrete and aggregate. They are UL rated to resist two guys with power tools for 30 minutes (TL30) throwing all they have at it. Yours is rated against (one or two, I forget) guys with hand tools only that have handles no longer than around 18 or 24 inches. For five minutes. The x6 means the walls will stand up to the same attack as the door will. New insurance standards call for x6 in commmercial safes now because so many TL30's were being violated by the cut and peel method (which works even better on gun safes and those rated "RSC"). A place in Puyallup, a jewelry store, recently had their TL30 emptied from the adjacent building from the rear --they never entered the store. Said they lost $1million (far more than the safe was rated for anyway, and on top of that it should have had vibration sensors and a UL rated alarm which would have stopped the burglary).

Commercial vaults and gun safes are VERY different animals, yet the cost isn't that great all considered. Gun safes will keep out the kids, but they won't keep out the guy that knows what's in there and wants it.

Different ways I could get your safe. Quick and dirty: Snatch strap on truck or demo bars and long crow bars and I could prize it loose and take the whole thing. Swift and discreet: Since I'm not UL, I'd use power tools, namely a demolition saw, and cut a square on the side or back of your safe and then use a crow bar to open it up like a can of sardines. Then a rotary chisel and maybe a final cut with that saw or a grinder and I'm in. And I could do that if you had a TL30 --so you want the x6, it means the walls are just as tough as the door is.

If you are patient and have quick access to heavy moving equipment, vaults sometimes come up on CL. I meant to get one, but my buddy flaked on me (never flakes on me when HE needs my truck!) so I missed out on a Diebold AND Mosler safe, both in an old bank. Diebold had an 11 inch thick steel door and was torch resistant. They were practically giving it away, but I couldn't move it myself and I couldn't line up a way to get it done before demolition.

Sometimes these selfsame vaults get sold back to NW Safe, so ask and be patient --they'll certainly call you when they have something if they know you are interested and not a waste of time. I spelled it out for them in no uncertain terms what I expected them to do for how much, we negotiated a bit and BAM! Deal done. They'll bend over backwards for you if you show them $6000 in cash and tell them exactly what you want --the largest double locking TL30x6 made by either Original or Amsec (I'm under the impression the Original vaults are currently better built than the Original, but Amsec is still great, I still use those too).

The double lock is important because if you know what you are doing, it's just a matter of time to break the combo lock. And if the theif can get in and out over the course of a few days that helps tremendously. Or a hidden camera can reveal the code that way.

But even if you get past the combo, good luck getting by the 8 inch long key.

Having an alarm, a GOOD one, is also helpful but more than I can go into here.

 

[Strykervet]

I have talked to two guys who had safes go through fires, both said that even though the safes where fire protected the guns were pretty much ruined anyway. Combination of smoke, water, heat and trauma and all the supposed fire protection did squat. These where total loss house fires though. I imagin protection in a relativly small fire would be diffrent

TL30 and TL30x6 are fire rated for 2.5 hours at x temp. and for a shorter time at ridiculously higher temps. They also have expanding sealant in the doors and the walls are much thicker. I'd have to go look at it, but I can tell you it's far higher than any typical gun safe.

The TRTL-60 or TXTL-60 is the best of the best, but for the same size they cost twice as much. And what's the chances they'll be using explosives to break in? Anyway, they have the highest fire rating IIRC.

 

[IronMonster]

The safe I bought is a TL30x6, a real safe, not a "residential firearm storage container"

 

[Strykervet]

There you go, that's the one you want. RSC's don't cut it in my mind, even the "nice" ones. But having done security, I know too much about this stuff to feel comfortable with anything less.

NW Safe can pull off a scratch and dent for a bit more than you mention for the largest one Original makes with two locks, the "Platinum" delivered and installed. Maybe a used one for even less, but big ones are rare. You gotta negotiate and be patient for the right one.

Congrats on a great one or good luck finding another one... I found out one didn't cut it and besides, having two allowed me to lock up more than just firearms and I also was able divide value between them --not all eggs in one basket, as it were. You can also get killer deals for these things from time to time on CL, but it's rare.

Good luck to others looking, now you know what to look for, preferably a TL30x6 whatever (or better if you can afford it).

 

[dunndeal]

I'm a noobe here so if I'm out of line by posting a link another site please let me know.
I'm a member of calguns. There is a current thread about a group buy of Sturdy gun safes that is being formed. In the past the group buy savings have been 15%, it's not a standard issue safe, you can choose the model and customize to your heart's content.

Here's the link http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1130306

 

[The Heretic]

http://gunsafereviewsguy.com/