Logging destroying wildlife habitat?

[Alexx1401]

Went to the store today and there was a small table outside the door with two people there (I'll refer to as idiot 1 and idiot 2) that appeared to be doing a petition for something.
Idiot 1: Can I talk to you a minute?
Me: Sure.
Idiot 1: Do you hunt?
Me: Yes.
Idiot 1: Have you ever shot a bear?
Me: I hope to this year.
Idiot 1: Did you know they're logging the trees in the forest?
Me: Yes, then they replant with new trees.
Idiot 2: The logging is destroying the habitat for the wildlife.
Me: And the trees they plant creates new habitat.
Idiot 2: The logging also destroys the streams and waterways.
Me: They are required by law to stay a certaint way away from the waterways to protect them from the logging.
Idiot 2: But......
Me: I'm done, goodbye.

The "useful idiot" troops.

 

[Koda]

While I was working...at a retail job...the income that brought in , was little and to next to nothing.

Soooo....
I took a lot of extra hours , when I could get 'em....took side jobs....and sold a lot of my guns to make house payments and to put food on the table.
Times were tight , we buckled down ...and we got lucky.

Most people who genuinely fall on hard times double down like this. Two jobs if needed. Maybe some luck is involved, but that luck wouldn't be there if one wasn't committed to staying on their feet.

When I drive thru Portland and observe the homeless situation it doesn't look like anyone is working two jobs to get back on their feet.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Most people who genuinely fall on hard times double down like this. Two jobs if needed. Maybe some luck is involved, but that luck wouldn't be there if one wasn't committed to staying on their feet.

When I drive thru Portland and observe the homeless situation it doesn't look like anyone is working two jobs to get back on their feet.

Maybe...maybe not...
I can only speak for myself and what I did.

The how , what or why for anyone else...is on them.
Andy

 

[Alexx1401]

Most people who genuinely fall on hard times double down like this. Two jobs if needed. Maybe some luck is involved, but that luck wouldn't be there if one wasn't committed to staying on their feet.

When I drive thru Portland and observe the homeless situation it doesn't look like anyone is working two jobs to get back on their feet.

The "norm" has been to work more spend less all my life. All my life there has been a certain number of people who could work and just chose to not bother because they were willing to live in filth rather than work. The difference now is how much support many who would rather just get high all day have to live like this. With idiots making excuses for them. The one constant is the idiots making excuses and supporting these modern day bums is none of them want them living in their yard. They are just supposed to be allowed to camp in someone else's place.

 

[Koda]

Maybe...maybe not...

One theory I have is if someone is truly trying to get off the street they will eventually. My guess is those that are working on it are not a large percentage of the homeless community or it wouldn't be the huge problem it is today.

 

[Alexx1401]

One theory I have is if someone is truly trying to get off the street they will eventually. My guess is those that are working on it are not a large percentage of the homeless community or it wouldn't be the huge problem it is today.

For the VERY small percentage who really are just in trouble, and are NOT just druggies, there is all kinds of help waiting. The vast majority don't want the help if it comes with ANY kind of rules.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

One theory I have is if someone is truly trying to get off the street they will eventually. My guess is those that are working on it are not a large percentage of the homeless community or it wouldn't be the huge problem it is today.

Again...
I can't and won't speak for others....
Nor do I try and guess their motivation or lack there of...

What they do ...is on them....just like what I do is on me.
Andy

 

[P7M13]

You cannot deny that clear-cutting destroys the habitat for the creatures that live in the area being logged. It happens and it's temporary.
If mills and logging companies could selectively harvest only the mature trees in a much larger swath of land, I'm sure they would love to do that. Healthier and bigger trees, and tons more profit. The USDA funded loads of research back in the 80's to explore possibilities of doing this where it was affordable, but no solutions were found.

I worked directly with the homeless when I was in college. No one wanted to talk about how they got there, but it was evident that every one of them had suffered somehow and wound up where they were. There was a lot of mental instability, alcohol and drugs.

I knew two people who spent a brief time homeless, and one who was homeless until he was admitted to Oregon State Hospital a month ago.
Of the two, one was one of the best programmers I had ever met. Cancer took his daughter. He and his wife lost their house, all their savings, and the ordeal plus the depression that set in completely stripped them of motivation. His wife was the one who went back to work first. He eventually went to work as a photographer. Last I spoke to him, he hadn't written a single line of code since his daughter took ill, and didn't plan on ever coding again.
The other was homeless by choice, and lived in her chevy for two years working as a migrant farm hand all across America. Interesting stories. When she though she'd had enough, she applied to a bunch of law schools. She married as kiwi and as of twenty years ago was a barrister in New Zealand.

 

[oremike]

Never been homeless...but damn near with 2008 and its financial woes.

Housing market fell flat...
Wife is a structural engineer ...with no one buying homes , construction went to way side for a number of years....
Little to no construction...meant little to no need of a structural engineer.
While I was working...at a retail job...the income that brought in , was little and to next to nothing.

Soooo....
I took a lot of extra hours , when I could get 'em....took side jobs....and sold a lot of my guns to make house payments and to put food on the table.
Times were tight , we buckled down ...and we got lucky.

Way better off now with me working as a Dean of Students...and the housing market / new construction being done.
Still suffering the effects of those lean years however.
Andy

I hear you Andy, '08 was tough for us as well.
I was a mechanic building rock crushers. I'd been there 8 years with 10 more to go to retirement. '08 happened and the roads infrastructure bill failed in congress so out the door me and 300 others went. I lost my retirement as well. Banks got bailed out but retirement investment plans weren't insured.
My wife was having a hard time too bouncing around minimum wage jobs found thru temp services.
I traded in my couple year old Ford Diesel 4X4 pickup for a Toyota 2 wheel drive plain jane pickup. I sold guns, I cut firewood. I Picked Chantrelles and whatever else I could do to make the next house payment.
I'd gotten laid off in October but didn't realize how serious it was until the first of the year.
So I signed up for the Water Conservation 2 year degree program at Lane CC but that didn't start until Fall term. So between scraping and hustling to get by I was taking classes to get up to speed. High school was a long time ago.
Tough time, got down to 3 guns a 30-06, 12 Ga, and a 45 Colt revolver. Almost lost the house a couple of times but made it.
Side note because of all that, when I retired from the BLM that's why I took my retirement money in one lump sum and built the ammo business with it. I'd had enough of other people managing my money for me.
Anyway I'm of the mind set that there is work or at least something for the greater good for everyone to do. Holding their hand out for a handout ain't it.

 

[rjmt]

Never been homeless...but damn near with 2008 and its financial woes.

Housing market fell flat...
Wife is a structural engineer ...with no one buying homes , construction went to way side for a number of years....
Little to no construction...meant little to no need of a structural engineer.
While I was working...at a retail job...the income that brought in , was little and to next to nothing.

Soooo....
I took a lot of extra hours , when I could get 'em....took side jobs....and sold a lot of my guns to make house payments and to put food on the table.
Times were tight , we buckled down ...and we got lucky.

Way better off now with me working as a Dean of Students...and the housing market / new construction being done.
Still suffering the effects of those lean years however.
Andy

I am comfortably retired on 5 acres, but over my 74 years I've lived on couches, garages, in tents beside motorcycles and many fond memories of living in a '86 long bed dodge Van.
I traveled across California, Oregon and Washington doing contract work out of that Dodge Van
never considered myself homeless as long as I had that vehicle
went to the metal shredder just last year, used it for a chicken coup for a while

 

[arakboss]

Unfortunately the idiots are winning.

Malheur Lumber Co. closes, marking fifth Oregon mill shutdown this year

Malheur Lumber Co. announced it is closing for good, marking the fifth closure of a timber mill in Oregon this year.

www.statesmanjournal.com

 

[Nosferatu]

Fun fact: I was once homeless for a tad over 16 months. Never did any drugs of any kind.

 

[Member 24198]

Fun fact: I was once homeless for a tad over 16 months. Never did any drugs of any kind.

I don't think there's anything fun about that fact....

 

[Provincial]

You cannot deny that clear-cutting destroys the habitat for the creatures that live in the area being logged. It happens and it's temporary.
If mills and logging companies could selectively harvest only the mature trees in a much larger swath of land, I'm sure they would love to do that. Healthier and bigger trees, and tons more profit. The USDA funded loads of research back in the 80's to explore possibilities of doing this where it was affordable, but no solutions were found.

Clearcuts mimic natural destruction/regrowth cycles, except on a much smaller scale. The natural cycle ends in fire, and all the carbon is released into the atmosphere. Look at the Park Fire in California, which has consumed over 600 square miles, and no end in sight. Logging produces lumber, and if the things built with that lumber are preserved (like well-maintained houses), the carbon is sequestered for many decades or even centuries.

In a well-managed forest, the cycle of growth and harvest means that 1/40th to 1/100th of the land is a fresh clearcut each year. That leaves plenty of habitat for the wildlife, and the variety of habitat means habitat for many species. Old growth forests support specialized wildlife that the activists glorify, trying to get all harvest shut down. The original post in this thread pointed out the type of propaganda espoused.

Repetitious selective harvest will never be practical for many reasons, including cost, soil compaction, disturbance of understory vegetation, and inefficient use of energy. Especially so on steep slopes, which means any mountains, and most hills.

Trees are a crop, like agriculture. The rotation cycle is just longer.

 

[arakboss]

Clearcuts mimic natural destruction/regrowth cycles, except on a much smaller scale. The natural cycle ends in fire, and all the carbon is released into the atmosphere. Look at the Park Fire in California, which has consumed over 600 square miles, and no end in sight. Logging produces lumber, and if the things built with that lumber are preserved (like well-maintained houses), the carbon is sequestered for many decades or even centuries.

In a well-managed forest, the cycle of growth and harvest means that 1/40th to 1/100th of the land is a fresh clearcut each year. That leaves plenty of habitat for the wildlife, and the variety of habitat means habitat for many species. Old growth forests support specialized wildlife that the activists glorify, trying to get all harvest shut down. The original post in this thread pointed out the type of propaganda espoused.

Repetitious selective harvest will never be practical for many reasons, including cost, soil compaction, disturbance of understory vegetation, and inefficient use of energy. Especially so on steep slopes, which means any mountains, and most hills.

Trees are a crop, like agriculture. The rotation cycle is just longer.

I wonder if anybody has studied the effect on wildlife in areas that have had stand replacement level fires versus heavy logging? I'm thinking if I was a animal, I would rather deal with my home turf being logged versus severly burned.

 

[P7M13]

Clearcuts mimic natural destruction/regrowth cycles, except on a much smaller scale. The natural cycle ends in fire, and all the carbon is released into the atmosphere. Look at the Park Fire in California, which has consumed over 600 square miles, and no end in sight. Logging produces lumber, and if the things built with that lumber are preserved (like well-maintained houses), the carbon is sequestered for many decades or even centuries.

In a well-managed forest, the cycle of growth and harvest means that 1/40th to 1/100th of the land is a fresh clearcut each year. That leaves plenty of habitat for the wildlife, and the variety of habitat means habitat for many species. Old growth forests support specialized wildlife that the activists glorify, trying to get all harvest shut down. The original post in this thread pointed out the type of propaganda espoused.

Repetitious selective harvest will never be practical for many reasons, including cost, soil compaction, disturbance of understory vegetation, and inefficient use of energy. Especially so on steep slopes, which means any mountains, and most hills.

Trees are a crop, like agriculture. The rotation cycle is just longer.

Thanks for that, and let me clearly state, I am not against logging in any way.
Ages ago, they used to burn the slash, which returns nutrients to the soil like a forest fire, but I think they stopped that because of environmental regs. I have seen smoldering piles of logs, where it seems that's the compromise?

If I came across such a table like the OP wrote about, I'd ignore or just say, "no thanks." You can't argue with fools.

 

[orygun]

@slinderman m did you see what group the people at the table were with/from?

 

[Member 24198]

If I came across such a table like the OP wrote about, I'd ignore or just say, "no thanks." You can't argue with fools.

They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

[MTpockets]

 

[albin25]

Don't forget!
Plowing, seeding, watering, harvesting crops destroys habitat…. every year! over and over and over. As does building solar and wind "farms"



Maybe we can start calling. dams "hydroelectric farms" ?