Last round feeding issue with Okay Surefeed 20s

[CharlesAFerg]

Has anyone else had the last round fail to make it into the chamber and get absolutely smashed by the BCG? This seems to happen pretty consistently but only with the surefeed 20s, both black and grey, but no other mags. It seems like any ammo I use will do this. This was 77gr OTM by AAC, but I've tried PMC XTAC M855, & Aguila 62 fmjbt.

Lower is Aero, upper is a centurion thermal fit with SPR profile 16" barrel, mid length gas, centurion bcg, w/ a super 42 H2. Happens suppressed or unsuppressed. OCM5 can.

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[Koda]

if its only the last round my guess is its the follower is bad.

 

[CharlesAFerg]

if its only the last round my guess is its the follower is bad.

I have tried multiple surefeed 20s and they all seem to do this.

 

[Koda]

I have tried multiple surefeed 20s and they all seem to do this.

Then Id stop buying Surfeed mags. What is Surefeeds reputation for magazine quality?

 

[Member 53328]

Buy Magpul.

By the sounds of it they aren't living up to their name.

 

[Stomper]

Try only loading 19 rounds instead…..



I'm with @Koda, I'd look real close at the follower (they're not in backwards are they?) and also the feed-lips of the magazine.

 

[Koda]

Ive never heard of Surefeed but it looks like they are made by OKay Industries.
I have one metal "GI" mag thats 30rds and its an OK Industries brand and it runs fine in two ARs. If I recall they make original GI spec metal mags so the nostalgia is sought after with these.
I havent read any bad reviews, I bought mine a few years ago... maybe their quality has fallen victim to post covid laziness.

 

[CharlesAFerg]

Ive never heard of Surefeed but it looks like they are made by OKay Industries.
I have one metal "GI" mag thats 30rds and its an OK Industries brand and it runs fine in two ARs. If I recall they make original GI spec metal mags so the nostalgia is sought after with these.
I havent read any bad reviews, I bought mine a few years ago... maybe their quality has fallen victim to post covid laziness.

Whatever they're called, it's the 20 round okay industries straight GI mags with black followers. I've tested 5 of these mags, one of which had a different black finish, so it has to be some type of incompatibility with the follower used in these or something. I don't have any issues with my 30 rounders, including all my surefeed e2 30rd mags.

Buy Magpul.

By the sounds of it they aren't living up to their name.

Yeah, I need to buy some 20 round pmags. I've got plenty of 30s but they have no issues.

 

[DirectDrive]

I've always thought of Okay/NHMTG/Colt 20rd (all the same mag) as the best AR mag.
Maybe someone put anti-tilt followers in them.
They supposedly don't play well with anti-tilt followers.

 

[Koda]

Whatever they're called, it's the 20 round okay industries straight GI mags with black followers. I've tested 5 of these mags, one of which had a different black finish, so it has to be some type of incompatibility with the follower used in these or something. I don't have any issues with my 30 rounders, including all my surefeed e2 30rd mags.

the fact that its only the last round thats not feeding right suggests its the magazine quality in those 20rounders. My guess is the follower, could be the spring. Try taking a follower out of one of your 30 rounder and put it in one of your 20 rounder and see...
If you want classic metal 20 rounders try ASC brand magazines, Ive been having good luck with those.

 

[DirectDrive]

the fact that its only the last round thats not feeding right suggests its the magazine quality in those 20rounders. My guess is the follower, could be the spring. Try taking a follower out of one of your 30 rounder and put it in one of your 20 rounder and see...
If you want classic metal 20 rounders try ASC brand magazines, Ive been having good luck with those.

No, don't do that.
The 20 rd being a straight uses a different type of follower.
Word always was, "do not use a Magpul type anti-tilt follower in the 20rd mags"
Those followers were meant for curved mags.

Colt, NHMTG and Okay mags all came out of the same plant in Hartford, CT
Same mag, different roll mark.

Sounds like the OP's mags are presenting the last cartridge at a bad angle.
They might have the wrong followers and are binding on that last cartridge.
OR there's something wrong with his feed ramp.

ETA :
A USGI20 requires that the follower tilt in order to feed reliably- if it didn't tilt to some degree, the cartridges would nose-dive. The follower tilts under spring tension, pushing up on the front of the cartridge stack so the cartridges feed reliably.

An anti-tilt follower in a USGI20 is at best a gimmick, and at worst will hinder proper function.

Twenty-Round Magazine Followers - Page 3

I thought I'd buy a few of these 20-round NHMTG magazines: http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_20_ar15_magazine/nhmtg They appear to have a black follower. I'm educating myself on followers and believe black is a bad color for them. Is that true when the follower itself has a cartridge shape...

www.m4carbine.net

 

[Koda]

No, don't do that.
The 20 rd being a straight uses a different type of follower.
Word always was, "do not use a Magpul type anti-tilt follower in the 20rd mags"
Those followers were meant for curved mags.

Colt, NHMTG and Okay mags all came out of the same plant in Hartford, CT
Same mag, different roll mark.

Sounds like the OP's mags are presenting the last cartridge at a bad angle.
They might have the wrong followers and are binding on that last cartridge.

noted....

sounds like hes just got some bad 20 rounders then.

 

[TTSX]

See, your problem is that you're loading the ammo backwards in the mag. What's supposed to happen is they do a judy flip mid air when the bolt cycles right before going into the chamber. They're not supposed to just slide in there nicely. If you have any questions, refer to this picture from HK. They know what they're doing.

 

[CharlesAFerg]

No, don't do that.
The 20 rd being a straight uses a different type of follower.
Word always was, "do not use a Magpul type anti-tilt follower in the 20rd mags"
Those followers were meant for curved mags.

Colt, NHMTG and Okay mags all came out of the same plant in Hartford, CT
Same mag, different roll mark.

Sounds like the OP's mags are presenting the last cartridge at a bad angle.
They might have the wrong followers and are binding on that last cartridge.

Yeah, can't do that. I'll switch lowers and see if that changes anything. Strange. Also, magpul 20 rounders will probably do the trick. Probably..

 

[Stomper]

See, your problem is that you're loading the ammo backwards in the mag. What's supposed to happen is they do a judy flip mid air when the bolt cycles right before going into the chamber. They're not supposed to just slide in there nicely. If you have any questions, refer to this picture from HK. They know what they're doing.
View attachment 1492450

Ya know….. that would have been funnier if I had said it.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

We run exclusively surefeed 20's for high power in both black and grey. We have 3 sets of 8 in regular use. I don't do anything to maintain them other than repaint numbers on them when it wears off. They run flawlessly. They are one of the more popular 20's.

 

[DirectDrive]

We run exclusively surefeed 20's for high power in both black and grey. We have 3 sets of 8 in regular use. I don't do anything to maintain them other than repaint numbers on them when it wears off. They run flawlessly. They are one of the more popular 20's.

This thread is the first time I've ever read/heard about anyone having trouble with the 20rd Surefeed (USGI) magazines.
I think there could be more to the story.

 

[Koda]

I would not rule out the possibility something is off in the rifle. A stack up of tolerances maybe affecting only one type of magazine. Except its odd it doesnt happen to his 30 round magazines of the same make.

 

[DirectDrive]

I would not rule out the possibility something is off in the rifle. A stack up of tolerances maybe affecting only one type of magazine. Except its odd it doesnt happen to his 30 round magazines of the same make.

That's a good point.
In a straight-tube 20rd USGI, the follower HAS TO TILT upward in order to present the rounds at the correct angle to feed.
If someone has "upgraded" the correct 20rd followers to an "anti-tilt" follower, the last few rds. would take on a "nose down" angle.
The mag feed lips could be bent....another thing to check.

The 20rd USGI mag, the original M16 mag, is considered by many to be the Gold Standard mag for these rifles.

 

[CharlesAFerg]

This thread is the first time I've ever read/heard about anyone having trouble with the 20rd Surefeed (USGI) magazines.
I think there could be more to the story.

I mean, that's why I posted because I'm familiar with the widespread and successful use of these mags. I had centurion rebuild the entire upper, so I'm inclined to believe it's something with the lower. I will swap the uppers on my other rifle and use the same buffer to see how the mags behave in that configuration.