its a shotgun in the traditional sense, but legally its just a "firearm", Black Aces Tactical DT

[FireArm]

I heard about this shotgun that has a 10" barrel, vertical foregrip pump action, pistol grip, uses saiga12 mags, with a sig brace, looks like a mossberg screwed a saiga and this was its illegitimate child. Its something that Im sure when the BATFE got their Governmental oversite fetish hands on, it made their heads spin around twice. Legally since B.A.T. makes the reciever in-house they got to classify the weapon to their liking, and chose to classify it NOT as a pistol, shotgun, or rifle, but only as a firearm. Thus throwing much legal terminology associated shotguns and rifles normally right out the window. Terms like A.O.W or S.B.R that normally mean ATF involvement via permits and fees are not needed for a simple firearm. So I picked one up for just under $1200.

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[The Heretic]

I am sure that eventually the BATF will classify these as not suitable for sporting purposes and then declare them destructive devices.

 

[308]

Because we all know the 2nd is about sporting clays

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I agree that the 2A is not about hunting , sporting clays etc ...
However perception can be everything.
And a firearm that has the perceived ability to be "more lethal" or dangerous because of some of its features might end being higher on someone's ban list.
Higher than say a run of the mill shotgun set up for sporting clays or hunting birds.

I know that many anti gun groups want to ban all guns and that my antique guns are in danger of being banned as well.
They just aren't has high up in the anti gun radar as other guns.
Again this may be because of a false perception that because a gun is old it it somehow less lethal.
And I know that all guns can and will be on someone's "Don't want you to own list."

A load of buck shot fired from the shotgun in the OP , fired from my 870 grouse gun or flintlock Trade Gun is just the same , a load of buck shot. And all are equally deadly.
But show each of those to the most of the public and ask :" Which gun is more dangerous?" Or "Which should you be able to own?" This is the perception I'm talking about.

I understand that in the end its just a gun. It is no more lethal or dangerous than any other.
But I'm a gun guy. I like guns and feel that you should be able own whatever you want if you are a law abiding citizen.

What I saying is that the popular perception of shotguns like this or AR's ,AK copies etc ...on both sides of the gun rights divide may be their biggest enemy.
Many non gun people see guns like those mentioned above as useful only for the killing of people.
That line of thought , coupled with not understanding that the 2A was meant as a safeguard for all of our rights is a dangerous viewpoint.
Also many gun ads , articles , posts etc ... can perpetuate the perception of being the very thing that anti gun people stereotype as a typical gun owner.

I suppose that while looks and perceived uses aren't everything , they can go a long way in helping or hindering what it is you want to do.
Andy

 

[Joe13]

I agree that the 2A is not about hunting , sporting clays etc ...
However perception can be everything.
And a firearm that has the perceived ability to be "more lethal" or dangerous because of some of its features might end being higher on someone's ban list.
Higher than say a run of the mill shotgun set up for sporting clays or hunting birds.

I know that many anti gun groups want to ban all guns and that my antique guns are in danger of being banned as well.
They just aren't has high up in the anti gun radar as other guns.
Again this may be because of a false perception that because a gun is old it it somehow less lethal.
And I know that all guns can and will be on someone's "Don't want you to own list."

I understand that in the end its just a gun. It is no more lethal or dangerous than any other.
But I'm a gun guy. I like guns and feel that you should be able own whatever you want if you are a law abiding citizen.

What I saying is that the popular perception of shotguns like this or AR's ,AK copies etc ...on both sides of the gun rights divide may be their biggest enemy.
Many non gun people see guns like those mentioned above as useful only for the killing of people.
That line of thought , coupled with not understanding that the 2A was meant as a safeguard for all of our rights is a dangerous viewpoint.
Also many gun ads , articles , posts etc ... can perpetuate the perception of being the very thing that anti gun people stereotype as a typical gun owner.

I suppose that while looks and perceived uses aren't everything , they can go a long way in helping or hindering what it is you want to do.
Andy

That's what I keep around my house loaded - guns for stopping threats from people...

No deer, elk or hogs in my neighborhood

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Joe I added a line of thought to my post ( 3rd paragraph ) you might want to re-read before you "like"
Andy

 

[Joe13]

Joe I added a line of thought to my post ( 3rd paragraph ) you might want to re-read before you "like"
Andy

Eh, I still like it - I'm multifaceted like a well cut diamond (purdy and a ladies best friend)

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I had just started typing when you "liked"my post ... so just making sure
Andy

 

[FireArm]

Going to get one of these next.

 

[Caveman Jim]

So if they are ATF legal then we peons can build our own, Cool!!!!
Without a stamp....

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Sweet, I want one!

Not a betard child! A love child!

BTW, since its awfully bulky, even with a short magazine, I don't see much legitimate criticism about concealability! 'Course, there's always the old, "ewww, it's a gun and it's all black and creepy!"

 

[Alexx1401]

So if they are ATF legal then we peons can build our own, Cool!!!!
Without a stamp....

BE CAREFUL Here!! The reason these are working without being NFA right now is they were manufactured as a "firearm". They never had a stock on them. By "build your own" you don't want to take a "shotgun" that was made as a "shotgun" when it was serial numbered and just start building something like this. Don't make yourself a test case for the BATF.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Yeah, the Supreme beings are above the law.....

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

I am sure that eventually the BATF will classify these as not suitable for sporting purposes and then declare them destructive devices.

But when they did that with street sweepers they waved the fees and as a DD you could add a stock at that point free and clear, right?

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

Joe I added a line of thought to my post ( 3rd paragraph ) you might want to re-read before you "like"
Andy

@Joe13 likes almost all posts. trust me.

 

[Joe13]

@Joe13 likes almost all posts. trust me.

As long as most or part of it is good.

 

[FireArm]

I was gonna put a KAK shockwave Blade pistol stabilizer on mine. Or is messing with it going to cause to magically become a D.D.? It looks pretty sweet with the 20rd drum in it. My father always wanted a Cobray streetsweeper, when I brought home my first Saiga12 he damn near pee'd, when I converted over I thought he was gonna cry, he grabbed me by the shoulders, looked me in the eyes and made me promise to never get rid of it, and this was when they were still $349new, I told everyone who would listen to buy multiple of them (no one did but me).

 

[The Heretic]

But when they did that with street sweepers they waved the fees and as a DD you could add a stock at that point free and clear, right?

I have no idea. I am not up to date on NFA stuff