Infrastructure and warfare

[CamoDeafie]

Best place for this I suppose..
Here is why I do not believe the Government is willing to destroy its own crumbling infrastructure in open warfare against domestic groups...

Money and perceived power.

Yes the government may turn against its own citizens, yes there are already abuses of governmental powers, and we are seeing disregard for the people in some states... but overall, if Americans are the stockholder of the governmental trust fund (revenues and businesses, even with foreign partners); it is illogical to the government to alienate the very base that keeps them funded.

Granted our infrastructure needs work, but in the end, the people either pays more taxes to repair, or they don't get repaired anyhow.

Bombing its own cities and roadways? Why?

They need the cities peoples for taxation, and they need the roadways to support the military, as well as the transport of resources to provide yet more revenue.

The long con game is to keep the people distracted enough, divided enough, and make money off them to keep going the same way it has always gone... they know not to upset the people so much that the people unites against them.. although it is looking like there are pockets of such unity, certainly was enough to get a certain President in... but once again they are back to their old tricks... and once again, gun owners are the targets.... but they will not go the routes used by several regimes, but rather the British/Australian route, or as close to them as possible without causing a second civil war.

In the end; it seems like the government will allow natural disasters and riots to push the people into fighting one other as opposed to fighting the government itself.

What can one do?
Stay vigilant, stay prepared, keep support network, but also remember that we are all still Americans, not powerless.

Read More

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Read the Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes:

Leviathan (Hobbes book) - Wikipedia.

Still have questions?

A cursory-look at the Federal Enterprise Architecture Program (FEAP) should convince any reader (above the 8th grade level), that the people simply cannot win any conflict with the government, unless the government wants it to happen.

A working knowledge of the Zachman EA Grid should exemplify my point.

Every level of government in every state uses the Enterprise Form of Government.

The only industry who has a slim chance to beat the govt. is....

The transportation industry; they could shut this country down without firing a shot (in a good novel of course....). All they have to do is turn the engine off.

Good luck!

 

[Martini_Up]

Wait. Didn't the Bundy family just have a conflict with govt and win?

 

[Stomper]

Read the Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes:

Leviathan (Hobbes book) - Wikipedia.

Still have questions?

A cursory-look at the Federal Enterprise Architecture Program (FEAP) should convince any reader (above the 8th grade level), that the people simply cannot win any conflict with the government, unless the government wants it to happen.

A working knowledge of the Zachman EA Grid should exemplify my point.

Every level of government in every state uses the Enterprise Form of Government.

The only industry who has a slim chance to beat the govt. is....

The transportation industry; they could shut this country down without firing a shot (in a good novel of course....). All they have to do is turn the engine off.

Good luck!

The transportation of just about EVERYTHING is the key to a civilized and prosperous society in modern America. If the transportation industry in all its forms doesn't "shut down", a few people working in tandem with multiple vehicles could bring the interstates to a endlessly grinding halt by conducting a rolling blockade, slowing traffic to a stop at a pre-determined choke-point, hop out and light the cars on fire then jump over the guard rail to getaway car that's out of view from the interstate.

Large cities (who are mainly "blue") would "feel the burn" in a matter of days if this was randomly kept up for a prolonged period of time.... so much mayhem is possible, from just a few determined people.

 

[coop44]

Yep, logistics is a beotch. As Napoleon and Hitler discovered in Russia, Patton in Europe, countless others I'm sure. Keeping supplies flowing to military or civilian users is key. Back in the 70's Sat with some folks and realized that Los Angeles could be cut off by rail and highway by as few as a half dozen "landslides". The airports were debated for a bit but General consensus was that they would at least be a mess with people trying to leave and cargo trying to enter, it would be like the Berlin airlift multiplied many fold.
Every major metropolitan area suffers the same weakness, to one degree or another. Make plans not to live within a hundred miles of one, or plans to get out at the first signs of trouble.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Who seriously think that the military would not take full control of the Interstate and State highways? Like I said, why would the govt want to destroy the infrastructure that would enable the military to keep supplies going and "relief" to areas that they want to keep control of?

Now if a group of people can figure a way to prevent the govt from taking total control of infrastructure, and make it impossible for them to take control without incurring massive collateral damage and run the risk of the people getting up in arms against the military and the government......

 

[MasterChief]

if every 18 wheel trucker had a plan and decided to park the rig on a decently traversed overpass, bridge, or onramp.....and walk off for 120 days......you would see a helluva change in what came next.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I'm thinking about all these convoy ambushes that were done in the ME against the militaries, even when the military had 100% airspace control.... in addition to a fine mess that the antifa made blocking traffic in urban areas... and then we have the riots that effectively stopped major traffic in cities... if a group were bold enough, and had the confidence, and didnt care about losing jobs.. even just 1 million gun owners could really make a significant show of "force" by blocking major traffic by marching onto WaDC... thats grossly overestimating the national numbers of willing and ballsy gun owners (assuming 100 million plus are actual gun owners, and assuming 1% as opposed to 3%)

 

[Diamondback]

"B-b-b-but we got JERBS to do! And families to feed! And SO MUCH to do at home and only 2 days/week for the Neverending Honeydo List!"

This is why the Right can never be as "active" as the Left... too busy keeping the world running and making for the Left to take.

 

[CamoDeafie]

The Right could probably easily stop the running of the world.....

 

[Ura-Ki]

Lot of thinking Here! I raised this point before, the actual numbers of "Gov" people that are causing all this are only a small number with in the huge Gov structure! The average gov flunky isn't intrested in doing bad any more then the rest of the population, so let's put it in the proper context, a fairly small group of very powerful gov "employees" are the ones that are causing all the issues. Gov. It's self is a tax eating monster with very little control or oversght, and this plays into the issues, which the power hungry use against us to continue to raise taxes on us even more! It' a endless circle jerk of taxes, wage increases, more taxes, and on and on and on, no end in sight. It's why the minimum wages have been raised!
Now, what would a conflict look like? On the one side, you push the people hard enough they will eventually say enough is enough, and ether the Gov. Backs down a little ( while still taking more then we are willi n to give) just enough to stave off a fight, Or, the people finally say stop, enough is enough, and they rise up and make demands that the Gov has two choices, give in, or ( pick your choice of demise) or fight. They can't fight because they don' have the numbers, so we get what we want! Now if they keep pushing dissarment, it may likely go too far and the people ( what ever the percent it is dosnt really matter) uses it's power of armed conflict to push back until a peace is brokers and terms are agreed on!

THIS is the heart of it all, disarmed, were completely powerless to stop a gov. run a look, it' why they are pushing so hard, and have resorted to the tactics they have, getting the people to turn on each other, and it' working. Sooner or later a small % of armed folks will step up and do what much be done, and in convert with things mentioned above, will bring this country to it' knees and force a bargain. Ultimatly, this country needs to be brought to heel, both gov, and Civilian! Depending on the leadership of both sides, will determine the outcome we have at the end! It's not over yet, not by a long shot, so when the bans come down, you have a choice, comply or resist! Might want to start thinking about where you stand before that choice comes knocking on your door at 3:00 am!

 

[DuneHopper]

Lot of thinking Here! I raised this point before, the actual numbers of "Gov" people that are causing all this are only a small number with in the huge Gov structure! The average gov flunky isn't intrested in doing bad any more then the rest of the population, so let's put it in the proper context, a fairly small group of very powerful gov "employees" are the ones that are causing all the issues. Gov. It's self is a tax eating monster with very little control or oversght, and this plays into the issues, which the power hungry use against us to continue to raise taxes on us even more! It' a endless circle jerk of taxes, wage increases, more taxes, and on and on and on, no end in sight. It's why the minimum wages have been raised!
Now, what would a conflict look like? On the one side, you push the people hard enough they will eventually say enough is enough, and ether the Gov. Backs down a little ( while still taking more then we are willi n to give) just enough to stave off a fight, Or, the people finally say stop, enough is enough, and they rise up and make demands that the Gov has two choices, give in, or ( pick your choice of demise) or fight. They can't fight because they don' have the numbers, so we get what we want! Now if they keep pushing dissarment, it may likely go too far and the people ( what ever the percent it is dosnt really matter) uses it's power of armed conflict to push back until a peace is brokers and terms are agreed on!

THIS is the heart of it all, disarmed, were completely powerless to stop a gov. run a look, it' why they are pushing so hard, and have resorted to the tactics they have, getting the people to turn on each other, and it' working. Sooner or later a small % of armed folks will step up and do what much be done, and in convert with things mentioned above, will bring this country to it' knees and force a bargain. Ultimatly, this country needs to be brought to heel, both gov, and Civilian! Depending on the leadership of both sides, will determine the outcome we have at the end! It's not over yet, not by a long shot, so when the bans come down, you have a choice, comply or resist! Might want to start thinking about where you stand before that choice comes knocking on your door at 3:00 am!

Nice post by the OP and @Ura-Ki good, intelligent and well reasoned ... wow and in this forum non the less.
Seriously both a good read.

 

[Colts4me]

Just opinion. Wars are fought in many ways and some ways you dont' even see the battle. To give an understanding on just a small part of the cost of infistructure let's look at paving. One mile of road cost a million dollars and wears out under use every ten years. Look around at all the city streets that are pot holed and broken up then realize it's the same over the entire nation. It's a warfare called managed decline and while government spends trillions to put us deeper in debt they do nothing to repair our cities roads.

Cities have to tax you to get road money and while the state ruins jobs and destroys the middle class our cities turn to ruin. It's slow and steady like a cancer and with Oregon getting a flood of people who are going to get service jobs they won'the have tax money enough to pay for the infistructure they wear out.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Its why i laugh at the people putting their cars on rubberband wheels and lowering them.. so much body damage from hitting the potholes everywhere

Also why I upgraded from a 98 Suzuki sedan to a 2001 Kia Sportage.... even in 2wd, its far better suited to the roads than the econotrash.

But really, expect some country roads to turn right back into gravel roads in a few years...

 

[Diamondback]

Its why i laugh at the people putting their cars on rubberband wheels and lowering them.. so much body damage from hitting the potholes everywhere

Also why I upgraded from a 98 Suzuki sedan to a 2001 Kia Sportage.... even in 2wd, its far better suited to the roads than the econotrash.

But really, expect some country roads to turn right back into gravel roads in a few years...

Part of why I'm starting to think instead of that '93 Explorer I've been thinking about (and since I can't get the right brushguard anyway for a JP replica), maybe I should look for a '97 or '98 Mercedes ML320...

 

[Colts4me]

Its why i laugh at the people putting their cars on rubberband wheels and lowering them.. so much body damage from hitting the potholes everywhere

Also why I upgraded from a 98 Suzuki sedan to a 2001 Kia Sportage.... even in 2wd, its far better suited to the roads than the econotrash.

But really, expect some country roads to turn right back into gravel roads in a few years...

What people don't see is because the state went to managed decline thousands of workers have retired or quit that build our infistructure. So many people left the trades its' going to drive the price up on fixing the roads if they ever do fix them. My bet is jobs won't come back to Oregon since the state isn't job friendly and with a small tax base they will just let us go to ruin. It's war on the middle class and if they keep you poor then they control you, that's how wars work.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Theres a stretch of Springhill Drive that seems to always develop potholes in the exact same section of the road (near the center line, heading towards Albany) and always in line... always being filled with chipseal or whatever low budget fill they use. Also several mfg companies are currently hiring but they want experience at entry wages. We are looking to move to a more gun friendly state possibly by end of year.

 

[cigars]

if every 18 wheel trucker had a plan and decided to park the rig on a decently traversed overpass, bridge, or onramp.....and walk off for 120 days......you would see a helluva change in what came next.

Did you ever just park at a rest stop on I-5 and count how many big rigs head towards the city in the span of a half hour? Hundreds. Think about that.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Following along with my last post, how do things go from where they are to where they will end up? First, lets say the guns, the antis manage to sneak in a fast ball and overnight we are all now felons, the Gov"ness demands turn in, and OSP is tasked with the job. A few are attempted and the OSP officers and maybe city cops get killed, so the Gov'ness declares martial law and calls on the DOJ who roll in all available resources ( about 3000 full surge) they set up check points and road blocks and begin moving in to select areas to begin house to house searches. Keep in mind, declaration of martial law essentially removes your constitutnal rights, so you have no legal standing. a group of patriots decide to make a stand, and the fight turns bloody. Here is where things get sporty, as more and more patriots take up the fight, the feebs have to exert more control, and to try and contain the fight to a controllable battle space. Outside the battle space, we have Insurgents from other States who have also had enough and they descend on the fight, pushing ever forward against the Feebs, decreasing there numbers while closing off the battle space. At the same time, other States rise up and start arresting any political figure they don't agree with, they start killing those, and any "collaborators" they find ( thanks to the "list") the fight quickly over runs those States, while the first state is still fighting the Feebs, and the citizens are winning! Very quickly, the feebs will run out of their Heavy hitters and guns and equipement, now belonging to The People, the Patriots will continue to collect all traiters and while some may be collected for trials, most will be killed, and families of traiters killed. sooner then later, this will make its way to the furthest reaches of out country, the power mad will collapse in to very small groups and there armed security will be no match for the Patriots, these politicos will be caught and some tried, but most will simply be killed! At this point there is a Power voide, a vaccume, and order needs to be restored, the Patriots having the upper hand then decide on the future and who will be a part of it and who will not. THAT is where things are likely to go!

 

[DuneHopper]

Having read all the above and looking at the antis playbook in my basement.

How far are we off :

• Votes tampered with - Check
• Laws passed demonizing the law abiding - Check
• Set example on up-risers ( Bundies) - Check
• Warrantless searches approved - Check
• Due Process Removed - Check
• Demonize the tools - Check
• Install license plate readers in all major and minor cities - Check
• 100% full corruption of media, socialist oversight complete - Check
• Use Children to defy their parents and side with the Government.

This is what we are seeing right now.

Most everything except license readers also what happened in 1935 Germany, and later in China, Korea, Australia, just to name a few. But instead of license readers you had civilian plants feeding the government local information on you.

Anyone worried yet ??