I was wrong about the Sig P320

[1775usmc]

Just making a thread to say I was wrong. I didn't think what SIG was claiming was possible. So after having a P320 given to me for free I acquired a Streamlight TLR-1 and a 6000 series duty holster made by Safariland (the same one in the Montville Police video). Well with everything put together I can easily recreate every scenario caught on body cam. Whether it be a handcuff key, a seatbelt latch or the ratcheting portion of the handcuffs.

I now believe that the P320 isn't just going off in the holster. The trigger is being pressed by something. With that said I still stand by my opinion that the way the platform is set up I don't think it should be carried in a duty role, nor do I think it's a safe duty gun. Especially in a light bearing holster. The trigger is way too easy to access and manipulate. The travel is too short and the pull is too light.

For competitive shooting or a flat range I think it's fine. Where elements are completely controlled. I'd even say that it would be safe to EDC (WITHOUT a light) in a quality holster. But in a role where it will be going in and out of the holster and outside elements can easily make their way into the holster due to the demands of the job I think it's unsafe. I may change my mind if it had a manual safety or a tabbed trigger. I actually have a tabbed trigger on the way so I can do the same tests and see the difference. Because without the tabbed trigger or manual safety it is extremely easy to manipulate the trigger. In fact it's kind of alarming. I definitely wouldn't want that kind of access going hands on with people as a LEO.

This isn't a post about SIG as a company or how they've conducted themselves. I still have strong opinions on that. But I do want to clean the slate and say from what I can tell I am wrong about the P320 as a mechanical device. I don't think it's the right tool for the job but the gun itself is safe in my opinion.

I've been a troll with this entire situation. And I was wrong. @sobo @DirectDrive @Old Dog @WillametteWill this is me eating my words. Ya'll were right.

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[Koda]

wow, the gap in the light bearing holster is huge. Appreciate the photos showing various obstructions that can get in there, that really puts the topic in perspective.
So with the lack of trigger tab, the light trigger pull, would you say this is only worthy of duty or CCW use without a WML light and a proper holster?

 

[1775usmc]

wow, the gap in the light bearing holster is huge. Appreciate the photos showing various obstructions that can get in there, that really puts the topic in perspective.
So with the lack of trigger tab, the light trigger pull, would you say this is only worthy of duty or CCW use without a WML light and a proper holster?

Only speaking for myself…. I would possibly carry it concealed once it has a tabbed trigger. For me I need some form of external safety. I wouldn't carry it with a light on it at all. Along with that it will be staying in the holster once chambered. The likelihood of it getting pulled and reholstered is minimal.

I wouldn't carry it at all as a duty gun on a belt holster. Simply going in and out of the holster with gear, clothing, keys, ect. add stress and no safeties you're asking for a problem. The risk assessment is way too high. And that would be without a light as well. The only way I would consider it is with a manual safety and tabbed trigger (depending on what I observe once I receive mine and install it).

 

[Koda]

Only speaking for myself…. I would carry it concealed once it has a tabbed trigger. For me I need some form of external safety. I wouldn't carry it with a light on it at all. Along with that it will be staying in the holster once chambered. The likelihood of it getting pulled and reholstered is minimal.

I wouldn't carry it at all as a duty gun on a belt holster. Simply going in and out of the holster with gear, clothing, keys, ect. add stress and no safeties you're asking for a problem. The risk assessment is way too high. And that would be without a light as well. The only way I would consider it is with a manual safety and tabbed trigger (depending on what I observe once I receive mine and install it).

that makes sense, one thing out of all these discussions on this is regardless of the debacle I just dont like the idea of a striker fired gun without at least a trigger tab safety.

So obviously your sample passed the "wiggle" test but Im curious what else you did to reach your conclusions the gun cant/doesnt go off by itself?

 

[1775usmc]

that makes sense, one thing out of all these discussions on this is regardless of the debacle I just dont like the idea of a striker fired gun without at least a trigger tab safety.

So obviously your sample passed the "wiggle" test but Im curious what else you did to reach your conclusions the gun cant/doesnt go off by itself?

Well the wiggle test is nothing. Cause the trigger has to be pressed past the wall to get the striker to drop. This idea (that I believed) that the gun was going off without a trigger pull is false from what I have seen. I don't deal in absolutes so I'm not going to say it can never happen. But I don't think it's happening in these cases. Like I said above I think the gun in its mechanical form is safe and operates as intended. But I don't think it's the right tool for the job in regards to LE in its current set up.

 

[Koda]

Like I said above I think the gun in its mechanical form is safe and operates as intended. But I don't think it's the right tool for the job in regards to LE in its current set up.

Sounds like its the holster gap when used with a WML. I wouldn't want that as a civilian as well.

 

[1911Fanatic]

I will be interested in seeing how the new trigger dongle works for you. I may get one for mine. For now though, I don't carry it.

 

[1775usmc]

I will be interested in seeing how the new trigger dongle works for you. I may get one for mine. For now though, I don't carry it.

I don't think in a standard configuration (no tabbed trigger or safety) it is a good choice for a defensive pistol. Either concealed carry or duty. Simply due to the risk and with how many other options there are out there. I don't necessarily think it's "unsafe" mechanically but you assume a lot of risk by carrying it. That's my opinion.

Everyone wants a smoother, lighter, crisp trigger pull. There is a fine line. It's why I don't change any of the triggers in my Glocks. Are the triggers great, nope. But they are that way for a reason.

Carrying a P320 is the equivalent to carry a 1911 cocked and locked with the grip safety disengaged. The trigger pull is just a little heavier. Not smart in my opinion. But it doesn't mean the gun mechanically is failing. Something is pressing the trigger. There is just nothing stopping/potentially preventing the trigger engagement.

 

[1911Fanatic]

I don't think in a standard configuration (no tabbed trigger or safety) it is a good choice for a defensive pistol. Either concealed carry or duty. Simply due to the risk and with how many other options there are out there. I don't necessarily think it's "unsafe" mechanically but you assume a lot of risk by carrying it. That's my opinion.

Yeah. I still haven't got a holster for it. Probably never will. It's the house gun. I have it on my nightstand with the chamber empty and a 21 round mag in it. I like the way it feels in the hand and it's an easy, accurate shooter. But, my RXM feels pretty much the same in the hand, so that is the 9mm that I would carry first, before all of my other 9's.

 

[DirectDrive]

I agree that a P320 without a manual safety is not the best choice for a duty pistol.

Manual Safety
Tabbed trigger by Agency Arms
+10% trigger spring
+10% sear springs

If SIG could go back, I'd bet that they would have issued a Duty Version.

 

[1775usmc]

I agree that a P320 without a manual safety is not the best choice for a duty pistol.

Manual Safety
Tabbed trigger by Agency Arms
+10% trigger spring
+10% sear springs

If SIG could go back, I'd bet that they would have issued a Duty Version.

That agency trigger should be showing up at my door tomorrow. And I agree. I bet they would and if they had we would not be where we are at currently with the P320 PR mess.

 

[metalhead68]

Just making a thread to say I was wrong. I didn't think what SIG was claiming was possible. So after having a P320 given to me for free I acquired a Streamlight TLR-1 and a 6000 series duty holster made by Safariland (the same one in the Montville Police video). Well with everything put together I can easily recreate every scenario caught on body cam. Whether it be a handcuff key, a seatbelt latch or the ratcheting portion of the handcuffs.

I now believe that the P320 isn't just going off in the holster. The trigger is being pressed by something. With that said I still stand by my opinion that the way the platform is set up I don't think it should be carried in a duty role, nor do I think it's a safe duty gun. Especially in a light bearing holster. The trigger is way too easy to access and manipulate. The travel is too short and the pull is too light.

For competitive shooting or a flat range I think it's fine. Where elements are completely controlled. I'd even say that it would be safe to EDC (WITHOUT a light) in a quality holster. But in a role where it will be going in and out of the holster and outside elements can easily make their way into the holster due to the demands of the job I think it's unsafe. I may change my mind if it had a manual safety or a tabbed trigger. I actually have a tabbed trigger on the way so I can do the same tests and see the difference. Because without the tabbed trigger or manual safety it is extremely easy to manipulate the trigger. In fact it's kind of alarming. I definitely wouldn't want that kind of access going hands on with people as a LEO.

This isn't a post about SIG as a company or how they've conducted themselves. I still have strong opinions on that. But I do want to clean the slate and say from what I can tell I am wrong about the P320 as a mechanical device. I don't think it's the right tool for the job but the gun itself is safe in my opinion.

I've been a troll with this entire situation. And I was wrong. @sobo @DirectDrive @Old Dog @WillametteWill this is me eating my words. Ya'll were right.

View attachment 2162690 View attachment 2162691 View attachment 2162692 View attachment 2162693

I'm curious to know if the same scenario is possible with Sig's physical safety installed on the platform. I prefer having a physical safety on any CCW I'm carrying regardless of the make or manufacturer and have already installed safety's on my P365 XL and both of my purchased P365 micros that I gifted to my two daughters. I bought an X5 legion for competition which I won't put a safety on and just completed another P320 Xcarry with a full length slide which I believe I will. Just my curiosity getting the better of me

 

[1775usmc]

I'm curious to know if the same scenario is possible with Sig's physical safety installed on the platform. I prefer having a physical safety on any CCW I'm carrying regardless of the make or manufacturer and have already installed safety's on my P365 XL and both of my purchased P365 micros that I gifted to my two daughters. I bought an X5 legion for competition which I won't put a safety on and just completed another P320 Xcarry with a full length slide which I believe I will. Just my curiosity getting the better of me

If the safety is engaged the trigger manipulation would be mute from what I can tell. Because the manual safety would keep the trigger from being pressed. If the manual safety was not engaged the platform will have the same results as a standard P320.

 

[User 1234]

Have all of the videotaped incidents of P320's going off been light bearing holsters? The Marine Corps incident? The one in the shopping mall with the cop on the golf cart did not look light bearing.

 

[Stomper]

Just making a thread to say I was wrong. I didn't think what SIG was claiming was possible. So after having a P320 given to me for free I acquired a Streamlight TLR-1 and a 6000 series duty holster made by Safariland (the same one in the Montville Police video). Well with everything put together I can easily recreate every scenario caught on body cam. Whether it be a handcuff key, a seatbelt latch or the ratcheting portion of the handcuffs.

I now believe that the P320 isn't just going off in the holster. The trigger is being pressed by something. With that said I still stand by my opinion that the way the platform is set up I don't think it should be carried in a duty role, nor do I think it's a safe duty gun. Especially in a light bearing holster. The trigger is way too easy to access and manipulate. The travel is too short and the pull is too light.

For competitive shooting or a flat range I think it's fine. Where elements are completely controlled. I'd even say that it would be safe to EDC (WITHOUT a light) in a quality holster. But in a role where it will be going in and out of the holster and outside elements can easily make their way into the holster due to the demands of the job I think it's unsafe. I may change my mind if it had a manual safety or a tabbed trigger. I actually have a tabbed trigger on the way so I can do the same tests and see the difference. Because without the tabbed trigger or manual safety it is extremely easy to manipulate the trigger. In fact it's kind of alarming. I definitely wouldn't want that kind of access going hands on with people as a LEO.

This isn't a post about SIG as a company or how they've conducted themselves. I still have strong opinions on that. But I do want to clean the slate and say from what I can tell I am wrong about the P320 as a mechanical device. I don't think it's the right tool for the job but the gun itself is safe in my opinion.

I've been a troll with this entire situation. And I was wrong. @sobo @DirectDrive @Old Dog @WillametteWill this is me eating my words. Ya'll were right.

View attachment 2162690 View attachment 2162691 View attachment 2162692 View attachment 2162693

Oh, you wanna wipe the slate clean do ya......






You boarded that train, now you ride!

 

[1775usmc]

Have all of the videotaped incidents of P320's going off been light bearing holsters? The Marine Corps incident? The one in the shopping mall with the cop on the golf cart did not look light bearing.

I can't speak to that. Just going off what I have seen and tested myself. My opinion/viewpoint has changed. If more evidence is provided for the contrary I may change my mind again. Until then I don't think it's just going off without the trigger being pressed in some way.

 

[Nosferatu]

Too bad you don't like Glocks. You can even bring them through airport metal detectors without involuntarily shooting a TSA agent.

 

[sobo]

@1775usmc All I will say is, "Thank you."

 

[Stomper]

@1775usmc All I will say is, "Thank you."

Awwww..... ain't that SWEET?!

 

[sobo]

Awwww..... ain't that SWEET?!

I am nothing if not gracious...