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Holo vs. Laser on 22/45 Lite

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I posted this on Facebook, but I think the folks on that forum are more into "Where's the best place to buy ......".
I have a 22/45 Lite. Due to my old age and infirmity (definitely not firm) I installed one of the common (cheap) holographic red dot sights on it. I don't like this setup. It feels as if my wrist is really canted forward and down when the sight is on target. Sometimes I can't even find the dot on the holo screen because it feels so unnatural.
The pistol is an earlier version without an underbarrel rail. I'm thinking I'd like to remove the top rail and shorten it to mount (epoxy?) under the barrel. I'd like to avoid drilling and tapping the underbarrel, although I do have the equipment. Then I'd 86 the holo sight and replace it with a small Laser. This way I could hold the gun lower in front of me and my wrist would be at a more natural angle.
So I guess I have several questions:
1. Attaching the bottom rail. Would epoxy work? I think the barrel shroud on the Lite would stay cool enough.
2. Does my idea of the wrist geometry make sense?
3. I like the idea of restoring the iron sights. With the top rail, they're hidden. Good back-up when/if the Laser quits?
I also just did the paperwork to buy a can for this pistol, but both the Laser and the Holo sights will "see" around it. The Irons won't, however.

22-45 LITE.jpg
 

Alexx1401

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I posted this on Facebook, but I think the folks on that forum are more into "Where's the best place to buy ......".
I have a 22/45 Lite. Due to my old age and infirmity (definitely not firm) I installed one of the common (cheap) holographic red dot sights on it. I don't like this setup. It feels as if my wrist is really canted forward and down when the sight is on target. Sometimes I can't even find the dot on the holo screen because it feels so unnatural.
The pistol is an earlier version without an underbarrel rail. I'm thinking I'd like to remove the top rail and shorten it to mount (epoxy?) under the barrel. I'd like to avoid drilling and tapping the underbarrel, although I do have the equipment. Then I'd 86 the holo sight and replace it with a small Laser. This way I could hold the gun lower in front of me and my wrist would be at a more natural angle.
So I guess I have several questions:
1. Attaching the bottom rail. Would epoxy work? I think the barrel shroud on the Lite would stay cool enough.
2. Does my idea of the wrist geometry make sense?
3. I like the idea of restoring the iron sights. With the top rail, they're hidden. Good back-up when/if the Laser quits?
I also just did the paperwork to buy a can for this pistol, but both the Laser and the Holo sights will "see" around it. The Irons won't, however.

View attachment 499839
While not cheap Crimson Trace makes replacement grips that will give you the laser and let you see and use the irons. From what I read from a poster here the CT Grips made for the 1911 will fit your Ruger 22.
As for the trouble using the Optic I had a similar "feel" on my MKIII and MKIV. Seemed I was having to cant my wrist too much. I then wanted to be able to use the irons too so I bought a cheap lever lock mount to put on one of the Red Dots. That way I could slap it on at the range and take it off. I found it surprisingly holds zero very well, and seems to make it so it does not feel like I have to cant my wrist any more. Not sure why the little extra height does this but it was a win win for me. The lever lock rail mounts were about $10 on Amazon. I likes them so much I bought a few of them.
 
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Keep the red dot. A Red dot sight is way better for shooting fast than a laser.

Lasers have a very few applications they may excel at over a red dot sight. Using them as primary sighting aid is not one
of them.

The grip issue does not make sense. If anything it should feel like your slightly canting the barrel up to get the dot on target. The dot is higher than irons so you physically hold the pistol a little lower and can’t the barrel up slightly to get your dot picture.

Train to get use to acquiring the dot. After awhile it will come naturally. Using a dot sight with a larger window makes it easier but your dot will work fine with practice.

If you don’t want to spend a lot of time practicing, get something to attach to the front of your rail that you can add a wire to make a front post. Make the post tall enough it makes a peep/post sight picture out of the red dot and wire. When you shoot, start to align your temporary peep/post sight and the dot will always appear. After shooting it this way a bunch, remove the front post and will likely find that you naturally find the dot.

Please don’t start glueing things to that pistol. It is too nice to do that to. If you do, please post pictures so I can add it to a bubba-gunsmith thread on another gun forum.
 

Joe13

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Try a regular Ruger mark and see if you like that grip angle better.

If so then sell your and buy a different one. Or try a higher dollar red dot that fits lower.


Lasers are kind of a middle of the night thing imo and not real accurate other then the exact distance you zero them for.
 
OP
SmokeEater
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PA190002.JPG
Try a regular Ruger mark and see if you like that grip angle better.

If so then sell your and buy a different one. Or try a higher dollar red dot that fits lower.


Lasers are kind of a middle of the night thing imo and not real accurate other then the exact distance you zero them for.
Joe13............
I have several Ruger Marks. It is only this combination which cramps my wrist. I doubt there is a red dot which is any lower.
As far as Lasers go, they are plenty accurate enough for this use. My Mark IV is my go-to gun for accuracy.
If you at all familiar with Rugers, you should know the 22/45 is the only model in "LITE" and with a threaded barrel - or was when I purchased this one.
 

41mag

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Keep the red dot. A Red dot sight is way better for shooting fast than a laser.
yes, that has been my own observation;

In practice with that very model 22, given the extremely light weight, I found impossible to keep laser dot on target, while the red dot worked far better in keeping POA and POI nearly the same.
 

Alexx1401

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View attachment 502233

Joe13............
I have several Ruger Marks. It is only this combination which cramps my wrist. I doubt there is a red dot which is any lower.
As far as Lasers go, they are plenty accurate enough for this use. My Mark IV is my go-to gun for accuracy.
If you at all familiar with Rugers, you should know the 22/45 is the only model in "LITE" and with a threaded barrel - or was when I purchased this one.
The Laser's are something that always get a lot of detractors. To me? If you like one why not. I love them on a couple of my defense use pistols. Have one set by Crimson on my favorite 1911 which will fit your Ruger also, and also use one on my favorite little .32. Wife uses a Ruger SR22 for carry now. Would like her to use something more lethal but I take what I can get. she has a laser on hers and loves hell out of it. If you are not sure about one check Ebay. May be able to find a used CT made for 1911 you can try. If you don't like it you can always sell it again and get most of your cash back. Like I said the CT grip model is not cheap but they are nice. Have a pressure switch under your second finger to activate them and a switch on the side to turn it off if you want to not use it. When I shoot my favorite 1911 I turn it off for a few mags just to keep myself fresh on the open sights. Now that I know they will fit my Rugers I am tempted to buy another set of the grips to put on one just to play with. May get myself another set for Christmas :)
 

Joe13

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View attachment 502233

Joe13............
I have several Ruger Marks. It is only this combination which cramps my wrist. I doubt there is a red dot which is any lower.
As far as Lasers go, they are plenty accurate enough for this use. My Mark IV is my go-to gun for accuracy.
If you at all familiar with Rugers, you should know the 22/45 is the only model in "LITE" and with a threaded barrel - or was when I purchased this one.
Should put the volquartsen accurizing kit in that thing - makes a huge difference.

They make super slim red dots... vortex has one in the $200 range that's barley higher then your iron sights.


Personally not a fan of the lite or 22/45 models. It was just a suggestion.
 
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I'm no help I don't use a sight on a pistol, most times do not even use the iron sights.
But curious at what people do.
 
OP
SmokeEater
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I have an LCP with laser. It is excellent for it's use, which is shooting without needing to bring the gun up to eye level. That is the result I want from the LITE. Both my shoulders are cripped up from old age and it is painful for me to bring my arms up. A good example of that is, it takes both arms to brush my hair. Getting old is he!! and sometimes you have to make accommodations.
So really, the only question I am really asking is about the attachment of a short rail under the LITE barrel by using epoxy. I may try it and report back. I'm going to wait until I get approval for the suppressor first.
 

ron

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It will help to mount the dot as low as possible. This is a Fastfire 3
and fastfire mount. Hogue grips help for me. My Mark 3 with Volquartsen
trigger/sear kit. Mag disconnect removed
DSC00184.JPG

DSC00185.JPG
 
Last edited:
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I have an LCP with laser. It is excellent for it's use, which is shooting without needing to bring the gun up to eye level. That is the result I want from the LITE. Both my shoulders are cripped up from old age and it is painful for me to bring my arms up. A good example of that is, it takes both arms to brush my hair. Getting old is he!! and sometimes you have to make accommodations.
So really, the only question I am really asking is about the attachment of a short rail under the LITE barrel by using epoxy. I may try it and report back. I'm going to wait until I get approval for the suppressor first.

Instead of cutting and glueing why don't you run it by a Smith like Velsey. He may be able to solder it on for you. And it would be done right.

I used a laser on a rifle so I could still shoot after a neck surgery. I didn't have to shoulder it. Is kinda fun hitting targets that way. But brighter sunlight makes a reddot fade and it's had to find at distance. The green is a bit better but neither is good on bright days.
 

Alexx1401

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Should put the volquartsen accurizing kit in that thing - makes a huge difference.

.
Those trigger groups they make are VERY damn nice. Once you try one most are sold on them.
Have not bought one (yet) for my newest 22/45's as both of mine are the LITE models. The weight is so little that they are never going to be something for serious target shooting. May still buy at least one for the MKIV which is my favorite of all my Ruger .22s but it's just for range fun and maybe one day put a can on for fun.
Had a MkII with heavy barrel and a Clark Trigger, was the same idea as Volqurtsen, and when my eyes worked better damn it was fun to play with and hunt with. Was talked out of it long back and it's one of those I would like to have a do over on and not sell :)
 

Joe13

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Those trigger groups they make are VERY damn nice. Once you try one most are sold on them.
Have not bought one (yet) for my newest 22/45's as both of mine are the LITE models. The weight is so little that they are never going to be something for serious target shooting. May still buy at least one for the MKIV which is my favorite of all my Ruger .22s but it's just for range fun and maybe one day put a can on for fun.
Had a MkII with heavy barrel and a Clark Trigger, was the same idea as Volqurtsen, and when my eyes worked better damn it was fun to play with and hunt with. Was talked out of it long back and it's one of those I would like to have a do over on and not sell :)
It did wonders on my mk3 Hunter;).

Someday I'll put one of the low profile vortex red dots on it - I honestly don't like the sight setup it has now with the fiber front end and v notch back sight.
 

Alexx1401

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I have an LCP with laser. It is excellent for it's use, which is shooting without needing to bring the gun up to eye level. That is the result I want from the LITE. Both my shoulders are cripped up from old age and it is painful for me to bring my arms up. A good example of that is, it takes both arms to brush my hair. Getting old is he!! and sometimes you have to make accommodations.
So really, the only question I am really asking is about the attachment of a short rail under the LITE barrel by using epoxy. I may try it and report back. I'm going to wait until I get approval for the suppressor first.
Can't really see why that would not work. Have you asked what a Smith would charge to just Drill and Tap it though? If you have it done this way I can't see how it would detract from the looks or value of the pistol. Probably make it more desirable since Ruger makes one version that has the under rail in the MK series but it's the heavier one of course as you mentioned. On yours with a can and a laser would be some wicked fun. If you do it will be interested to see the final results. I have the same MKIII you do that was a gift from the Wife when they first hit and were VERY hard to come buy. I love my MKIV for ease of takedown but still love the looks of my older MKIII which is the same one you have.
 
OP
SmokeEater
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It will help to mount the dot as low as possible. This is a Fastfire 3
and fastfire mount. Hogue grips help for me. My Mark 3 with Volquartsen
trigger/sear kit. Mag disconnect removed
View attachment 502332
View attachment 502333
Actually, mounting it low would force me to raise my arms even higher. It would also mean my wrist would be canted forwards more. I want to be able to shoot from the waist.
Thanks for the reply, though.
 
OP
SmokeEater
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Instead of cutting and glueing why don't you run it by a Smith like Velsey. He may be able to solder it on for you. And it would be done right.

I used a laser on a rifle so I could still shoot after a neck surgery. I didn't have to shoulder it. Is kinda fun hitting targets that way. But brighter sunlight makes a reddot fade and it's had to find at distance. The green is a bit better but neither is good on bright days.
The LITE outer barrel is made of a composite material - not metal. I don't know how thick it is or whether it would accept threading. If it can, I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself.

Disassembly of the outer barrel is not recommended as the inner barrel is under measured tension. That is a factory-only operation. Without taking it apart, i have no way of finding out the wall thickness.

Obviously, the factory has figured out how to do it, as the 22/45 Tactical has the under-barrel rail.
22-45 tactical.jpg
 
OP
SmokeEater
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...I love my MKIV for ease of takedown but still love the looks of my older MKIII which is the same one you have.
My son showed up one day and I no longer have the Mk.III. Strange how that happened...
The Mk.IV Hunter I have is several years old and I won't disassemble it. This one is tough to get back together, unlike I guess, the newer ones. It is my most accurate pistol, however. From the bench at 15 yards I have saved a target with 4 groups of five shots each in one hole. Wish I had a clearer picture.
12-03-2008 target.jpg
 

Alexx1401

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The LITE outer barrel is made of a composite material - not metal. I don't know how thick it is or whether it would accept threading. If it can, I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself.

Disassembly of the outer barrel is not recommended as the inner barrel is under measured tension. That is a factory-only operation. Without taking it apart, i have no way of finding out the wall thickness.

Obviously, the factory has figured out how to do it, as the 22/45 Tactical has the under-barrel rail.View attachment 502401
On mine it's pretty close to 80-90 hundredths. Like you not about to take it apart to get an exact but it's at least .080. Feels like some kind of alloy so would assume aluminum but we both know how assumptions go :)
If still had access to a good Mill I would be tempted to try it on mine although I can't see why some kind of epoxy would not be worth trying too. At worst if it fails you could clean and re finish I suppose.
When Wife bought mine she knew what I wanted but they were year + wait at the locals. She unknown to me found one online at J&G and ordered it for me for Christmas that year. She transferred it at our favorite local shop who had one or two of those Tactical models they were of course trying to talk her into. I never handled one but the weight listed makes me assume they are steel. In any case I would be interested in seeing how yours comes out if you do put a rail on the bottom. If epoxy works I will be tempted to try it. Figure I got nothing to loose and the under rail laser that is quite nice is about 1/3 what the cost of the CT grips are.
I still prefer the looks of my MKIII but love the ease of clean on the IV. I made a paper weight out of the III one day when I cleaned it. Don't know what the hell I did but it went together and that was it. Would not work and would not come apart. I was planing on sending it back to Ruger. So bought a IV and then when I called to see if Ruger would help with shipping it back they put me on with a Gal there who deals with this all the time. On the phone she walked me through fixing it. It sat in the safe for months broken and I had no idea how easy it was to put it back in action. I still am leery to take it apart again after that though. So now when I range it I use that spray cleaner on it instead :)
 

Alexx1401

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My son showed up one day and I no longer have the Mk.III. Strange how that happened...
The Mk.IV Hunter I have is several years old and I won't disassemble it. This one is tough to get back together, unlike I guess, the newer ones. It is my most accurate pistol, however. From the bench at 15 yards I have saved a target with 4 groups of five shots each in one hole. Wish I had a clearer picture.View attachment 502406
Nice shooting!! I assume you must mean a MKII though? The MKIV design just has a button under it that you push and the whole top end comes off. It was one of the best idea's Ruger ever came out with and whoever invented it deserves to get wealthy off the idea.
I have an old MKII that the first time I took apart I thought I was going to be sending back in pieces. This was pre internet and the instruction manual sucked. After reading it and trying multiple times I finally figured out what I was doing wrong. Later when Algore invented the net these were all over the gun boards for just this reason. One guy even invented a conversion kit to make them take down with an Allen Wrench kind of like the Brownings. Later Ruger re did the manual on the MKII to make it much more clear what they were trying to say. I have no doubt they got some back in parts from angry owners who could not figure out what that original was trying to say.
 

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