Hi Point 995 and 4095 carbines

[whatzhizname]

Hey,
I've heard Jack over at The Survival Podcast (www.thesurvivalpodcast.com) talk about the value of pistol caliber carbines and wonder why more survival/preparedness people don't point out the value of the inexpensive Hi Point 995 and 4095 carbines.
Granted, they are ugly and look a lot like the guns from "Planet of the Apes". They only have 10 round magazines (and the aftermarket ones from Pro Mag have poor reputations), but for someone who doesn't have a lot of money for a decent home defense long arm, they seem like they'd be a good purchase. And in a pinch, they'd work on deer-sized game. When you actually hold one they feel ergonomic and are fairly accurate (at least the one I shot with my brothers a couple of weeks ago).
I've read through a number of articles online about good SHTF firearms and always wonder why these handy little carbines aren't mentioned more often. I suppose some of it could be that for a long time SKSs were available in the same price range, but now that's changed so it seems that the High Point carbines would be a good fit for some people at the lower price point. I don't think too much of the High Point pistols (although that's admittedly based on internet rumblings) but the carbines seem to be almost universally praised by anyone who's ever owned one.
Any thoughts on why they're not mentioned more often as a cheap "entry level" defensive/SHTF-type option?
(There's a good article from a few years ago comparing the High Point to the Ruger PC-9): <broken link removed>

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[MountainBear]

I couldn't stand the one I had. Besides being ugly and an ergonomic nightmare, the controls were poorly placed and clunky to operate. Ten rounds in a 9mm carbine is too few. Mine was okay on accuracy, but did not like most hollowpoints and several brands of cheap ammo. It had feeding issues. I sold it as soon as I could.

The pistol caliber carbine is a great idea, and fun to shoot. Just stick with a better platform...

 

[hsullyc]

I just picked up a keltec sub 2000 in 40 cal,it pairs nice with my glock 22 and five 33rnd mags for when shtf.

 

[whatzhizname]

I just picked up a keltec sub 2000 in 40 cal,it pairs nice with my glock 22 and five 33rnd mags for when shtf.

I definitely respect Keltecs too, and once you have their sights figured out they are quite accurate. But they do cost quite a bit more than the High Points. I guess I'm just curious why there's not more love for those ugly little critters.

 

[rds801]

The new stocks on the Hi Point carbines are a lot more attractive

 

[MountainBear]

You can put a ribbon on a pig, but it still smells like crap...

 

[dave]

My 3rd place pig "all gussied up"

 

[trainsktg]

My 995 carbine didn't like hollowpoints either, but functioned flawlessly with fmjs. The low cost and lifetime warranty (from all reports a 'no questions asked' policy) is a big plus. In the end, I traded it for a H&R Leatherneck .22.

The Keltec is definitely nicer, plus its beneficial to have a 'modular' system where you can trade ammunition and magazines between a rifle and pistol.

Keith

 

[cbdolphin]

I currently own a Hi-point c9 (9mm handgun) and it has been nothing but reliable straight out of the box and presents me with no problems what so ever.

I can't wait to get my hands on one of their carbines. I want to pair the wife with the c9/995 Carbine for a SHTF situations, while I carry the AK and Glock 37.

I've heard nothing but great things about these carbines.

 

[soberups]

My humble opinion is that pistol-caliber carbines are sort of a "worst of both worlds" deal...you have the weak ballistics of a handgun in a weapon that cant be concealed and requires both hands to operate.

If I am settling for a handgun round...it will be fired from a handgun that I can carry on my belt.

If I am packing around a long arm...it will have the range and accuracy of a rifle caliber cartridge, or it will be a shotgun that can fill a variety of roles including hunting and brutal short range stopping power.

If I need to hunt deer sized game with an underpowered cartridge in a pinch, I would quite frankly rather do it with a scoped Ruger 10/22 than a Hipoint 9mm. I am confident in my ability to make headshots out to 100 yards with my 10/22; I doubt that a hipoint 9mm can do this.

 

[rds801]

You can put a ribbon on a pig, but it still smells like crap...

I can't agree with you yet. I will need to shoot one to see how it does.

 

[dario541]

In my opinion, these carbines would be functional for home defense. There would be less danger of penetrating the walls (and your neighbors, too.). 10 rounds should be enough if you can shoot good enough to hit a fat man across a poker table. If not, have several clips and you can quickly change them. They may be homely, but if they perform, that's the important thing. I say: "Go for it!"

 

[MountainBear]

The problem with high points is the lack of consistency. I would probably tie this back to poor quality control. There are some people like the above poster who swear by their products and would actually consider using them in a scenario where they had to trust their lives with them, or in this case, he lets his wife trust her life to them, while he trusts a Glock and an AK .
But there are too many people who tell horror stories of the fit, the feeding, and the overall function. My experiences come from owning a compact 9mm hi-point and a Hi-Point 9mm carbine. The Hi-Point carbine was more ugly and awkward than anything. The function had some hicups with hollowpoint ammunition and wolf 9mm. The mags were horrible, with burrs all over the metal. The stock had plastic ridges all over it that I had to remove with an ex-acto blade before it was comfortable to shoot. I am okay with a little fluff and buff, but this took too much. The compact pistol is a nightmare. Besides having the same problem with both burrs on the metal and plastic ridges on the plastic parts, it wouldn't feed anything but Speer Lawman FMJ. I tried American Eagle, Winchester white box, Wolff, and well as several brands of hollowpoints. Its favorite stoppages were stovepiping and feeding the round vertically into the roof of the breech. Not acceptable from any gun.
But other people swear they've never had any of these problems. Good for them. But my idea of cheap guns has progressed to Ruger auto-loaders and if you want a "cheap" pistol caliber carbine, buy a Kel-Tec Sub2000 that uses Glock mags. That way if you want to save up, you can buy a Glock and get the same benefit that you get with hi-point system, a pistol and carbine that uses the same mags.

 

[Aquadoc]

My humble opinion is that pistol-caliber carbines are sort of a "worst of both worlds" deal...you have the weak ballistics of a handgun in a weapon that cant be concealed and requires both hands to operate.

If I am settling for a handgun round...it will be fired from a handgun that I can carry on my belt.

If I am packing around a long arm...it will have the range and accuracy of a rifle caliber cartridge, or it will be a shotgun that can fill a variety of roles including hunting and brutal short range stopping power.

If I need to hunt deer sized game with an underpowered cartridge in a pinch, I would quite frankly rather do it with a scoped Ruger 10/22 than a Hipoint 9mm. I am confident in my ability to make headshots out to 100 yards with my 10/22; I doubt that a hipoint 9mm can do this.

Hmmm 10mm, 45, 44mag from a 16-18"bbl weakness? Surely you jest

 

[Aquadoc]

Say you have a Revolver in 44mag, well then you could have a 100m Ruger carbine in 44mag aswell. add a MOD12/870/500 and use a MI or MIA for your long range buidness and you are complete for arms.
BUT the Ruger 44mag Carbine makes things D E D out to 100m and from most reports is a 3" or less. JMHO

 

[unionguy]

Kel-Tec's seem the best option to me, given better quality and that they fold down into 16" long for added concealability; which will be important in any SHTF that isn't total breakdown of ALL authority.

The ballistics of the 9mm version is that the 16" barrel gives them the energy (stopping power) of a .357Mag out to 50-100 yards. Don't forget, lots of 9mm submachineguns with 16" barrels out there that work fine in this range bracket. So, within this range the stopping power will be sufficient.


That being said...that does mean these carbines will shoot through lots of walls in a HD situation!

 

[MountainBear]

They replaced it and did the quality control they should have done before it left the shop before I bought it.

That's the big deal. If you put a guarantee on a sub-standard piece of equipment, its still a sub-standard piece of equipment. I want a gun with a guarantee that I never have to use.

 

[cbdolphin]

The problem with high points is the lack of consistency. I would probably tie this back to poor quality control. There are some people like the above poster who swear by their products and would actually consider using them in a scenario where they had to trust their lives with them, or in this case, he lets his wife trust her life to them, while he trusts a Glock and an AK .
But there are too many people who tell horror stories of the fit, the feeding, and the overall function. My experiences come from owning a compact 9mm hi-point and a Hi-Point 9mm carbine. The Hi-Point carbine was more ugly and awkward than anything. The function had some hicups with hollowpoint ammunition and wolf 9mm. The mags were horrible, with burrs all over the metal. The stock had plastic ridges all over it that I had to remove with an ex-acto blade before it was comfortable to shoot. I am okay with a little fluff and buff, but this took too much. The compact pistol is a nightmare. Besides having the same problem with both burrs on the metal and plastic ridges on the plastic parts, it wouldn't feed anything but Speer Lawman FMJ. I tried American Eagle, Winchester white box, Wolff, and well as several brands of hollowpoints. Its favorite stoppages were stovepiping and feeding the round vertically into the roof of the breech. Not acceptable from any gun.
But other people swear they've never had any of these problems. Good for them. But my idea of cheap guns has progressed to Ruger auto-loaders and if you want a "cheap" pistol caliber carbine, buy a Kel-Tec Sub2000 that uses Glock mags. That way if you want to save up, you can buy a Glock and get the same benefit that you get with hi-point system, a pistol and carbine that uses the same mags.

I've owned Glocks (my fav), Kel-tec p-11's, Ruger p-89's and others and my hi-point has been the second best pistol I've owned out of the lot, with my Glock being the best. I've never had any problems with it, none. For the 150 bucks out the door I paid for it, it's one of the best bang for your bucks on the market and I know plenty of people that stand by their hi-points (and they all own more expensive guns).

As to allowing my wife to use them while I use the glock/AK? She isn't comfortable with the recoil of the .45 GAP or the 7.62x39, so getting her one of those rifles would do more damage than good. Her ammo would be interchangeable between handgun/carbine and she would be comfortable shooting it.

I would love to get her a Glock 17 but we are going to have to move at the end of the school year, so we have to save up so we can move since neither of us will have a guarenteed job.

Not to mention we would like to have a plinker that isn't outrageous to shoot like our other guns. I can get 9mm for 20 cents a round, in any quanity I want any day of the week.

x39, x54 and .45 GAP are too dang expensive to plink with (I have no local dealers that are not outrageously over priced, so I have shipping costs also)

As to the kel-tec? I've always been very unimpressed with their products, especially after owning one. I have not shot the sub2000 yet, so I'll reserve judgement on that one.

 

[MountainBear]

What you give your wife is your business. I would never trust my like to a hi-point. The problem is for everyone who loves theirs, there's someone who has had nothing but trouble. The odds are not as good as other guns.
If you have one that works for you, have at it. You can be convinced that you won't have to butt me or any of my loved-ones out of way in line to get another one...

 

[cbdolphin]

What you give your wife is your business. I would never trust my like to a hi-point. The problem is for everyone who loves theirs, there's someone who has had nothing but trouble. The odds are not as good as other guns.
If you have one that works for you, have at it. You can be convinced that you won't have to butt me or any of my loved-ones out of way in line to get another one...

If your counting people who forumlate an opinion based on their price, then yes there is one person who hates them for every person who loves them but 95% of the people I've came across that dislike them, have never even fired them. (not accusing you of this).

Hi-point has been one of this highest selling handguns for a few years now and it's much easier to find pictures/articles of Glocks, Sigs, XD's etc that have had kabooms (major malfunctions) than it is a hi-point.

Any mass produced items have batches with malfunctions and this is no different for hi-point, people just don't give them the leeway they give glocks/sigs/xd's etc because they don't carry the price tag that the other guns do.