Help ID Muzzle loader

[Heyjoe]

How-do, all. I'm searching for information on this muzzle loader. Seller claims 40 caliber.

Is it original?

What period is it from?

What to look for as far as potential issues?

Opinions on approximate value?

Many thanks!

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[Andy54Hawken]

What you have here....
Is a back action percussion lock rifle circa mid 1840's -1870s.

As for what it is worth....
Any names on the lock or barrel...?
If it has a name on the lock...that is more than likely the lock maker...
A name on the barrel could either be the barrel maker or maybe the maker of the rifle.
Does the lock work...?
How sound is the stock...?
Bore condition...?
Cracks in the stock....
Nipple , how frozen in place is it...?
Breech plug is it tight...?
Looks like you are missing the trigger set screw....
I see lots of corrosion at the nipple / snail drum area....
Missing barrel wedge pin....
Wood shrinkage around the lock / breech area....
A very rough guess here is $350 - $1000 all depending on the above........

Rifles like these were often made for a hardware / General store....and at one time fairly common.
.40 caliber would be a handy deer and small game rifle...likely for some farmer back east.
That said...many rifles like this made their way out West...during the westward migration era of the 1840's -1870's.
Andy

 

[Heyjoe]

Any names on the lock or barrel...?
If it has a name on the lock...that is more than likely the lock maker...
A name on the barrel could either be the barrel maker or maybe the maker of the rifle.

Good evening sir! As of now I haven't inspected this rifle but the seller claims it has no markings whatsoever. Where on the lock/barrel would one look for the makers names?

Does the lock work...?
How sound is the stock...?
Bore condition...?

See above, I'll be sure to check function of the lock, butt looks good in the pictures he sent me. Do you have any advice on checking the bore? I normally lock a slide/bolt back and light the breach while looking down the muzzle, my presumption is that getting light in the breach of a muzzle loader is a bit more difficult.

Cracks in the stock....

Yep, noted on the left side.

Nipple , how frozen in place is it...?
Breech plug is it tight...?
Looks like you are missing the trigger set screw....
I see lots of corrosion at the nipple / snail drum area....
Missing barrel wedge pin....
Wood shrinkage around the lock / breech area....

Good points to check thoroughly. What is a barrel wedge pin? Is it a critical component?

A very rough guess here is $350 - $1000 all depending on the above........

Rifles like these were often made for a hardware / General store....and at one time fairly common.
.40 caliber would be a handy deer and small game rifle...likely for some farmer back east.
That said...many rifles like this made their way out West...during the westward migration era of the 1840's -1870's.
Andy

Thanks, friend!

The seller has it listed as a wall hanger at what sounds like a very flexible $300. I asked if he thought it would fire and he thought it would although I think he's as ignorant as myself on muzzle loaders. I have no interest in a "wall hanger" so it may be best to let this one go. 'course I may get a wild hair and offer a hundred bucks (dollars Andy, not buckskins) and see what happens.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

You are very welcome.

Where on the lock/barrel would one look for the makers names

On a back action lock...look behind the hammer on the lock plate.
On the barrel...as general rule...somewhere between the breech plug and rear sight.

What is a barrel wedge pin? Is it a critical component?

Yes...it holds the barrel in place on the stock.
That said...it is an easy replacement....you can buy one and file it to fit.

Do you have any advice on checking the bore?

Buy a muzzle loading rifle bore light...several folks make 'em....
Or use a "Thill Nite Brite Replacement Battery Light"
( That is what I use )

$300 is a steal for what I see...the parts alone are worth that.

Now as far as shooting an original rifle goes....
I enjoy doing so...and it is very fun and neat to shoot a almost 200 year old rifle.
However....
I would not buy this rifle or any original rifle with the idea of it being a 'everyday" shooter....
A little bit of shooting a few times a year ...yep.

We are talking about a rifle that has lots of wear and tear on it...and while replacing the lock parts that will be worn ...is fairly easy to do...you still are repairing an old part....plus the stock may need to be glass bedded to get back into shooting shape.
Again easy to do.
I have overhauled many an old rifle and got it back to shooting shape...

But again not for use as a regular shooter or a shooter with heavy loads.
If I wanted a rifle for lots of shooting...then I would buy a new rifle.
Andy

 

[Heyjoe]

You are very welcome.


On a back action lock...look behind the hammer on the lock plate.
On the barrel...as general rule...somewhere between the breech plug and rear sight.

Yes...it holds the barrel in place on the stock.
That said...it is an easy replacement....you can buy one and file it to fit.

Buy a muzzle loading rifle bore light...several folks make 'em....
Or use a "Thill Nite Brite Replacement Battery Light"
( That is what I use )

$300 is a steal for what I see...the parts alone are worth that.

Now as far as shooting an original rifle goes....
I enjoy doing so...and it is very fun and neat to shoot a almost 200 year old rifle.
However....
I would not buy this rifle or any original rifle with the idea of it being a 'everyday" shooter....
A little bit of shooting a few times a year ...yep.

We are talking about a rifle that has lots of wear and tear on it...and while replacing the lock parts that will be worn ...is fairly easy to do...you still are repairing an old part....plus the stock may need to be glass bedded to get back into shooting shape.
Again easy to do.
I have overhauled many an old rifle and got it back to shooting shape...

But again not for use as a regular shooter or a shooter with heavy loads.
If I wanted a rifle for lots of shooting...then I would buy a new rifle.
Andy

Understood. I'm not interested in this piece as a daily shooter, just would like to know it was capable of working as designed or could be repaired to function reliably.


You are a gentleman and a scholar @Andy54Hawken

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Understood. I'm not interested in this piece as a daily shooter, just would like to know it was capable of working as designed or could be repaired to function reliably.


You are a gentleman and a scholar @Andy54Hawken

Thank you for your kind words.

As for repairs....
Those can be done...most look daunting at first , however a lock is fairly easy to to work on.
You tube , books or asking me....will be helpful....

You will have to order more than one part , say like a sear or tumbler...as you will have to file to fit... it is easy to take too much off.
Wood work is also common with these old guns.
Glass bedding will be your friend here.
A die and tap for threading in a new nipple will be needed.

And....
Remember that you are re-working a old , original gun.
The are plenty of gun guys who will drool over a completely restored 1969 Camaro ...
But instantly show disgust when the same is applied to an old gun.
Andy