Oregon HB2005 Litigation - Unserialized/Undetectable Ban

[CamoDeafie]

I'm aware of which party says that they care about our gun rights, but until they start actually doing something about it I'm not going to sing their praises.

They could pass national constitutional carry and repeal the NFA or atleast the Hughes ammendment and remove SBS, SBR, AOW, and supressors from the NFA tommorow but it's not going to even be seriously talked about for another 2 years when they lose the house and senate because of Trump "take the guns first due process later"

The biggest hurdle in anything relating to NFA is the Joint Committee on Finance. The Senate Committee on Taxation, and the House Ways and Means Committee.

 

[msgriff]

I'm aware of which party says that they care about our gun rights, but until they start actually doing something about it I'm not going to sing their praises.

They could pass national constitutional carry and repeal the NFA or atleast the Hughes ammendment and remove SBS, SBR, AOW, and supressors from the NFA tommorow but it's not going to even be seriously talked about for another 2 years when they lose the house and senate because of Trump "take the guns first due process later"

I believe that you are attempting to obfuscate the situation by using the "both sides" argument, at least as it pertains to current anti-2nd Amendment legislation and laws in the leftist controlled States.
If you are concerned about pro-2nd Amendment legislation on a National level, perhaps you are unaware of the cloture rule to end a filibuster in the US Senate. Not one Democrat would support any pro-2nd Amendment Bill, and in order pass any such laws, the cloture rule would have to be suspended or abandoned altogether. Are you aware of the consequences of such an action?
Now as far as anti-2nd Amendment laws recently passed in leftist controlled States, I would be happy to provide links to the voting results by party to any law in any of those States that you may be curious about. I doubt that anyone would be surprised by which party supports, in lock-step, those draconian gun control measures, though.

 

[TheShanMan]

Are the R's great? In many cases no. Would the founding fathers call themselves R's if they were alive today? No. But it's pretty silly to suggest there's no difference between the 2. Just look at the contrast between Idaho and Oregon.

 

[Will_White]

I believe that you are attempting to obfuscate the situation by using the "both sides" argument, at least as it pertains to current anti-2nd Amendment legislation and laws in the leftist controlled States.
If you are concerned about pro-2nd Amendment legislation on a National level, perhaps you are unaware of the cloture rule to end a filibuster in the US Senate. Not one Democrat would support any pro-2nd Amendment Bill, and in order pass any such laws, the cloture rule would have to be suspended or abandoned altogether. Are you aware of the consequences of such an action?
Now as far as anti-2nd Amendment laws recently passed in leftist controlled States, I would be happy to provide links to the voting results by party to any law in any of those States that you may be curious about. I doubt that anyone would be surprised by which party supports, in lock-step, those draconian gun control measures, though.

I'm not trying to obfuscate the situation, I'm telling it how it is. One side dumps all over the 2a and the other half heartedly tells them to stop and does nothing to clean up the mess.

Also go back and read what I said originally. I didn't say gun rights. I said rights, all of them.

 

[Koda]

One side dumps all over the 2a and the other half heartedly tells them to stop and does nothing to clean up the mess.

What should Republican senators do to clean up Democrat gun control bills?

 

[Will_White]

What should Republican senators do to clean up Democrat gun control bills?

They could start by passing a Hearing Protection Act or doing anything at all to advance gun rights.

Last time Red Team controlled The Senate, House, and Presidency they introduced 2 bills one to repeal the gun free school zone act that was dead on arrival and a CC reciprocity act that died in commitee. They also banned bump stocks in a way that gave Biden his blueprint, and supported red flag laws.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Again, the big hurdle to anything relating to the NFA, including suppressors and short barreled firearms... Is the Joint Committee on Taxation, particularly the Senate Committee on Finance.

The United States Senate Committee on Finance

Membership

www.finance.senate.gov

How many of those members have voted against 2A bills in the past....?

 

[Will_White]

Again, the big hurdle to anything relating to the NFA, including suppressors and short barreled firearms... Is the Joint Committee on Taxation, particularly the Senate Committee on Finance.

The United States Senate Committee on Finance

Membership

www.finance.senate.gov

How many of those members have voted against 2A bills in the past....?

So don't even introduce it? My point is Republicans only introduce legislation to advance gun rights when they know it won't pass, so they can say they tried.

Again my original comment wasn't just about guns.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

So don't even introduce it? My point is Republicans only introduce legislation to advance gun rights when they know it won't pass, so they can say they tried. . . .

and whine that they need more money so they can go back and do nothing for another 4 years

 

[Stomper]

and whine that they need more money so they can go back and do nothing for another 4 years

You've just exposed the grift for both sides!

 

[BlueJinn]

All firearms are required to have a serial # on the frame since 1968. I don't see where this adds or changes anything. As for D vs R, Reagan passed the first gun control law in California when Black Panthers showed up at the capitol lawfully open carrying rifles. Bush I enacted import restrictions for the "sporting purposes" and that idiotic thumbhole stock.

 

[Will_White]

All firearms are required to have a serial # on the frame since 1968. I don't see where this adds or changes anything. As for D vs R, Reagan passed the first gun control law in California when Black Panthers showed up at the capitol lawfully open carrying rifles. Bush I enacted import restrictions for the "sporting purposes" and that idiotic thumbhole stock.

All commercial firearms are required to have serial numbers, federally you can build your own guns without a serial number. This law requires you to get a serial number after you build it but you can't have an unserialized firearm so you can't legally build your own gun.

Although this might actually make it not do anything. "in accordance with federal law." IANAL but federal law says PMFs do not need to be serialized (although it is a good idea for personal identification)

 

[WSavage]

So what's the lowdown on all of this at the moment? Is it still being fought or did we lose our rights to make our own guns?

 

[BlueJinn]

All commercial firearms are required to have serial numbers, federally you can build your own guns without a serial number. This law requires you to get a serial number after you build it but you can't have an unserialized firearm so you can't legally build your own gun.

Thanks. you are correct. AFAIK, getting a "kit" from a manufacturer requires the frame/receiver be serialized. "Building" your own firearm literally from scratch (3D print?) would seem to be the only occasion you'd need to go and get a serial number from a FFL. FWIW, I don't see a real problem with that. Importation requires serialization and the importer can just make one up. I have a PPK/E with the German/Hungarian serial number and then the CAI number which begins with, PPKE. There are gunsmiths in Oregon that are also FFLs. Getting a laser engraving of a made up serial number that the 'smith keeps I don't see as that much of a burden. Could be funny to see what people come up with.

 

[Koda]

All commercial firearms are required to have serial numbers, federally you can build your own guns without a serial number. This law requires you to get a serial number after you build it but you can't have an unserialized firearm so you can't legally build your own gun.

Only Oregon law requires you to get a serial number, and before you build it not after. Unserialized 80% kits are illegal.

 

[Will_White]

Only Oregon law requires you to get a serial number, and before you build it not after. Unserialized 80% kits are illegal.

The FFL has to serialize it, you can't engrave something that doesn't exist. You can't apply for a serial number like the california ghost gun ban.

 

[msgriff]

Thanks. you are correct. AFAIK, getting a "kit" from a manufacturer requires the frame/receiver be serialized. "Building" your own firearm literally from scratch (3D print?) would seem to be the only occasion you'd need to go and get a serial number from a FFL. FWIW, I don't see a real problem with that. Importation requires serialization and the importer can just make one up. I have a PPK/E with the German/Hungarian serial number and then the CAI number which begins with, PPKE. There are gunsmiths in Oregon that are also FFLs. Getting a laser engraving of a made up serial number that the 'smith keeps I don't see as that much of a burden. Could be funny to see what people come up with.

As Koda posted, a PMF in Oregon now has to be serialized before you build it. Here is a link to a thread where a member here built a 300WM from scratch, casting and machining the core parts himself. The serialized part (lower receiver) was able to be serialized by an FFL before the grace period allowed by HB2005 expired. This type of project is no longer possible in Oregon. What would you serialize, the scrap aluminum before you melted and casted the lower receiver? You may not think that HB2005 is an infringement on our 2nd Amendment rights, but many members here do.

Omen PMF Northwest Firearms

 

[Koda]

The serialized part (lower receiver) was able to be serialized by an FFL before the grace period allowed by HB2005 expired. This type of project is no longer possible in Oregon.

Im not clear on when in the build process the serial number is required. The HB2005 primarily banned 80% build kits, buying, selling and possession of those without a serial number. But if someone built a 70% and took it to an FFL to get serialized I dont know if thats illegal.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Im not clear on when in the build process the serial number is required. The HB2005 primarily banned 80% build kits, buying, selling and possession of those without a serial number. But if someone built a 70% and took it to an FFL to get serialized I dont know if thats illegal.

No one knows or can define what 80% is, that is why it is important to only commit one crime at a time

 

[wired]

No one knows or can define what 80% is, that is why it is important to only commit one crime at a time

I used to say that 80% is a BS thing and not really a government sanctioned definition but then I got a SBR approval where the examiner had put "Built from an 80% receiver" in the conditions area.

By 80% they mean a "homemade" receiver. Huge difference between an AR blank where at best they're 50% and an AK blank where an 80% is more like a 98.9%