Washington Hb 1163 Washington

[matty206]

This part is absolutely the most ignorant and incredibly stupid thing that could be said with regard to this:

Rep. Darya Farivar, D-Seattle, said the new requirements will bring a greater sense of safety to neighborhoods like hers, Lake City, where gunshots can be heard nightly.

"They keep us up. They confine us to our homes as an unofficial curfew," she said. "This legislation will lift that unofficial curfew and let us sleep."

What ? - are guns and the shooting they hear going to just 'disappear' if this passes? Do they even consider the fact the shooting they hear is probably being done by criminals, and possibly non-legal gun owners - who most likely have no idea of this bill, or even care if they did and much less if it passes

Nobody thinks firearms will disappear overnight when something like this passes. The purpose is to reduce the amount of guns flowing into dangerous/criminal individual's hands over time, leading to less firearms on the streets to be used in a crime. It doesn't matter if the criminal knows about the law. What matters is the upstream effect of this law being in place will necessarily lead to a lower chance of a firearm ending up in that criminal's hands.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Nobody thinks firearms will disappear overnight when something like this passes. The purpose is to reduce the amount of guns flowing into dangerous/criminal individual's hands over time, leading to less firearms on the streets to be used in a crime. It doesn't matter if the criminal knows about the law. What matters is the upstream effect of this law being in place will necessarily lead to a lower chance of a firearm ending up in that criminal's hands.

Disarming law abiding citizens for the sake of some imagined trickle down effect some 60 years away is a fundamental violation of an individual's rights. It's like trying to reduce the number of rapes in the USA by castrating every male citizen in the USA. The problem is not the supply of penises, it's the criminal behavior of the rapists!

It's also a ridiculously ineffective method to try to get guns out of criminals hands.
1) The guns are already in criminal's hands by the millions.
2) And there is a further existing supply of 500 million or so they can get to by stealing etc.
3) the criminals can simply turn to some other weapon such as a car

Deal with the problem, criminal behavior, don't punish people who have done nothing wrong and take away their god given right of self defense. Currently many criminals have little to no fear of prosecution due to liberal catch and release policies. For example two murderers in Seattle had been convicted 45 times at the age of 26 but were free in society to kill. Prosecuting the criminals so that they have fear of committing the act would be 1000s of times more effective in dealing with violence (whether the criminal uses guns, cars, bombs, knives, or some other weapon is used).

 

[21tango]

Nobody thinks firearms will disappear overnight when something like this passes. The purpose is to reduce the amount of guns flowing into dangerous/criminal individual's hands over time, leading to less firearms on the streets to be used in a crime. It doesn't matter if the criminal knows about the law. What matters is the upstream effect of this law being in place will necessarily lead to a lower chance of a firearm ending up in that criminal's hands.

There is no "upstream effect" none of these laws are geared towards criminals. Cities/states with the strictest gun laws have the highest gun violence (Chicago, Detroit Los Angeles). These laws only make it more difficult for law abiding citizens to obtain firearms.

 

[10mm]

Disarming law abiding citizens for the sake of some imagined trickle down effect some 60 years away is a fundamental violation of an individual's rights.

Deal with the problem, criminal behavior, don't punish people who have done nothing wrong and take away their god given right of self defense. Currently many criminals have little to no fear of prosecution due to liberal catch and release programs. For example two murderers in Seattle had been convicted 45 times at the age of 26 but were free in society to kill. Prosecuting rhe criminals so that they have fear of committing the act would by 1000s of times more effective in dealing with violence (whether guns, cars, bombs, knives, or some other weapon is used).

Juveniles in WA get to commit 4 gun crimes free of charges and are only prosecuted on the 5th gun crime. And that is the problem! Prosecute the criminal, don't criminalize the law abiding.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Juveniles in WA get to commit 4 gun crimes free of charges and are only prosecuted on the 5th gun crime. And that is the problem! Prosecute the criminal, don't criminalize the law abiding.

Yep these 2 killed a woman and nine year old child in Seattle where it's a revolving door policy for criminals. No amount of disarming law abiding citizens will have any effect whatsoever on the behavior of criminals like this. However, punishing them for their crimes will. Both by locking them away so they can't do more damage and by showing other criminals what happens to those who exhibit criminal behavior. Their policies have done the opposite, commit crimes and you go free, over and over. Why would they even consider stopping their violent ways under such conditions?

 

[matty206]

Disarming law abiding citizens for the sake of some imagined trickle down effect some 60 years away is a fundamental violation of an individual's rights.

It's also a ridiculously ineffective method to try to get guns out of criminals hands. It's like trying to reduce the number of rapes in the USA by castrating every male citizen. Deal with the problem, criminal behavior, don't punish people who have done nothing wrong and take away their good given right of self defense.

Its not "imagined". Its based on data and statistics. You're wrong about how this effect occurs. It doesn't just randomly start doing things based on a bullbubblegum number you came up with. The effect starts when the law is passed and produces that effect over time. Literally nobody is disarming law abiding citizens.You follow this law, you get to have a gun.

Whats ridiculous is your dishonest engagement with how this law works. Your hypothetical is nowhere near equivalent to what this bill would do. We do deal with criminal behavior. I'm sorry that you can't deal with jumping through a few extra hoops so that other people won't be victimized.

 

[User 1234]

Please share these "data and statistics."

 

[matty206]

Juveniles in WA get to commit 4 gun crimes free of charges and are only prosecuted on the 5th gun crime. And that is the problem! Prosecute the criminal, don't criminalize the law abiding.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding about how the justice system functions. One, thats not how that law works. Two, its a law. Those juveniles DO get prosecuted based on how that law works. We can't prosecute outside of the bounds of the law.

 

[RVTECH]

I'm sorry that you can't deal with jumping through a few extra hoops so that other people won't be victimized.

How long will it take for any LEO depts to develop the 'permit to purchase' program so people can even think about this - as a 'hoop to jump through'? (I'd guess a year or more MINIMUM)

And while this is taking place what do the FFLs do who's sales would now drop to essentially zero - and maybe only 'trickle back' in the future ?

And so eventually say a few Depts DO finally develop the program and it is only in a few parts of the state? How would those living a long distance away conveniently deal with this 'hoop to jump through'?

This has NOTHING to do with reducing guns in the hands of criminals or a reduction of 'victims'

It's ALL about reducing the presence of guns by reducing, dealers, FFls etc. to dramatically reduce the availability of guns with their (the antis) eventual hope it reduces interest and ownership of guns in the 'long run'.

 

[sobo]

Thank you for posting that link.
I sent a reply / comment....won't do a damn bit of good...However I did get to state my dislike of this Bill.
( Politely and factually )
Andy

I did, too. Might not have been as polite as you, but I was factual, though...

 

[matty206]

Yep these 2 killed a woman and nine year old child in Seattle where it's a revolving door policy for criminals. No amount of disarming law abiding citizens will have any effect whatsoever on the behavior of criminals like this. However, punishing them for their crimes will. Both by locking them away so they can't do more damage and by showing other criminals what happens to those who exhibit criminal behavior. Their policies have down the opposite, commit crimes and you go free, over and over. Why would they even consider stopping their violent ways under such conditions?
View attachment 2052385
View attachment 2052386

Nothing in society exists in a vacuum. Unfortunately criminals like this have been allowed to roam free some times, I disagree with that. Enforcement of the law is a complicated thing with many individuals working throughout the process. A law like this could potentially have potentially prevented these guys from getting guns in the first place. Literally nobody is disarming law abiding citizens. You can literally still go legally buy a gun if this passes.

 

[21tango]

Its not "imagined". Its based on data and statistics. You're wrong about how this effect occurs. It doesn't just randomly start doing things based on a bullbubblegum number you came up with. The effect starts when the law is passed and produces that effect over time. Literally nobody is disarming law abiding citizens.You follow this law, you get to have a gun.

Whats ridiculous is your dishonest engagement with how this law works. Your hypothetical is nowhere near equivalent to what this bill would do. We do deal with criminal behavior. I'm sorry that you can't deal with jumping through a few extra hoops so that other people won't be victimized.

Lol been hanging out with George Soros much? In Iraq we weren't all that concerned about being shot as we were about being blown up. If someone wants you dead they will get the job done one way or another. Washington dc has the strictest gun laws in America and have for decades. Take a look at there gun crime rates and let me know if you think the gun laws are effective. Educate yourself.

 

[10mm]

Whats ridiculous is your dishonest engagement with how this law works. We do deal with criminal behavior. I'm sorry that you can't deal with jumping through a few extra hoops so that other people won't be victimized.

A law like this could potentially have potentially prevented these guys from getting guns in the first place.

Are you effing kidding!!!!!!!!!! Open up your eyes! Your brain has obviously been wired shut. "could have potentially" is not how to make an effective law to curb a problem the non-prosecution of criminals in Seattle has caused. Prosecute people, whether or not they are "disadvantaged".

When we start passing laws based upon what if's and could be hypotheticals are the exact opposite of common sense, which these laws are always proclaimed to be. A year or two later, you suddenly need another jump up, to a smaller hoop higher from the ground!

Make the criminals jump higher, not the law abiding. ZERO common sense.

 

[matty206]

Please share these "data and statistics."

Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality

www.cdc.gov

Oh look, the states with the most loose gun laws happen to have the highest rates of firearm mortality.



This is based on data from 2022 and was pulled from this article.

 

[10mm]

Old argument. Mostly suicides. We are talking about a mother and her 9 year old, and gangbangers who were caught doing a drive by shooting. IN SEATTLE!

 

[21tango]

Stats of the States - Firearm Mortality

www.cdc.gov

Oh look, the states with the most loose gun laws happen to have the highest rates of firearm mortality.

View attachment 2052393

This is based on data from 2022 and was pulled from this article.

Dont look at the states! Look at the cities! They are almost all liberal democratic run.

 

[10mm]

Why the F are we paying the Center for Disease Control to research what is nowhere close to a disease. That is the epitome of absence of impartiallity!

 

[21tango]

Why the F are we paying the Center for Disease Control to research what is nowhere close to a disease. That is the epitome of absence of impartiallity!

They need people who are good at fudging the numbers.

 

[RVTECH]

A law like this could potentially have potentially prevented these guys from getting guns in the first place.

Yea, kinda like the 'law' that says only those over 21 can get alcohol prevents minors from getting it.....

 

[matty206]

Lol been hanging out with George Soros much? In Iraq we weren't all that concerned about being shot as we were about being blown up. If someone wants you dead they will get the job done one way or another. Washington dc has the strictest gun laws in America and have for decades. Take a look at there gun crime rates and let me know if you think the gun laws are effective. Educate yourself.

My guy, your insane deep state fantasties are literally occuring in the Trump administration right now. Elon Musk is ACTUALLY pulling strings behind the scenes like how people like you claim other billionaires do. Lets talk about how Fox News, owned by Rupert Murdoch, settled a lawsuit for almost a BILLION dollars that was because of the network's support of Tucker Carlson's lies about voting machines being rigged.

Cool man, the U.S. isn't Iraq. This country has a higher standard of living. We do things in this country to prevent people from killing each other. Nice cherry picking of a stat by the way. Single statistical outliers don't disprove what the rest of the vast majority of the data indicates. People like you love to ignore that there are other states in this country that have way more loose gun laws. You also love to ignore that people can just travel across state lines really easily. Guess what states are near DC? States like Missiisippi, South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, Kentucky. States with some of the most loose gun laws that on average have some of the highest firearm mortality in the country.