Handload 7mm Brass Issues

[DLS]

Can you chamber factory loaded ammo?

 

[drstrangelove]

You could be building a big carbon ring right at the edge of the neck. Fiber optic borescopes are pretty cheap now. Have a look.
I have rifles that won't chamber a resized brass until a bullet is seated… it's due to the neck expander flaring open the neck a tad to accept a bullet… it's crimped down with seating die.
I always lube the inside of the brass neck before resizing to prevent pulling the shoulder up on the withdrawal.
Belted cases are very touchy with neck length… always trim AFTER resizing. That's when the neck grows the most. Be sure you are bevel smoothing inner and outer neck edges.
Make sure your neck and shoulders are annealed to keep the brass from springing back after the resize. I anneal every time.
Make sure the resizing die is inserted far enough into the press that there is a firm cam-over on bottom stroke, uncam, rotate shell holder, and cam over again.
If all else fails, get a reputable new die set… I've heard people bytch about RCBS, Hornady, and Lee… but never Forster or Redding… good stuff.
There's also this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwHQxEqYBPU

https://www.larrywillis.com/

 

[bpyycpyy]

Oddly, I had the same issue but in the reverse order. I went from 270 brass that fit fine in an old red butt pad, tang safety M77 to a Tikka T3 where the bolt wouldn't close on the same reloads. My issue was the shoulder wasn't set back quite enough but simply removing the bullet and resizing the case with a bit more shoulder setback solved the problem (used FL sizing die).
I would think that the resizing would fix the issue in your case as this should be making the ammo into SAMMI specs. If it doesn't fit, then there is obviously something not right in the rifle chamber. Best case would be a carbon ring buildup that you could clean out.
I agree with those that would like to see photos where the scratched areas are to provide better advice.

 

[Koda]

Yes. I would hope so, considering I have two different manufacture die sets one of them is bound to be full length. And as per my OP at first my uncle and I thought I was getting deep enough to the shoulder so we screwed the die body further into the press making a top of the stroke press not possible because the case is in there. At that point we just became puzzled as all hell.

I dont understand this, "one of them is "bound" to be full length" If you cant identify the die throw it away. You cant find the cause with stuff you dont know what it is.
Regarding FL die setup... I would stop backing the die off, set it up per its instructions (screw it down all the way) and dont mess with shoulder bumping. A properly set up FL die will size the case slightly smaller than saami spec, if that sized case doesnt fit then the problem is in the guns chamber.

Also the trim question. When you size a case the mandrel also sizes the neck ID, as the neck ID is being expanded it causes the case length to grow. If it grows too much past saami spec then it wont chamber. You need to measure this and know this isnt part of the problem.

 

[Koda]

You could be building a big carbon ring right at the edge of the neck. Fiber optic borescopes are pretty cheap now. Have a look.

This is worth looking into... (no pun intended but I'll take it... )

 

[iron_road]

Describe the scratching please. Is it longitudinal? Where on the case is it located, etc.?

Use a properly sized chamber brush to clean the chamber and try again?

Pictures would be helpful. If the ejector is still in the bolt that may be normal scraping.

Are you feeding from the magazine (which might account for the scratching) or sliding the case into the chamber directly then trying to finish chambering with the bolt?

Besides the scratching, where is the actual hang up occurring? Is it the neck,, shoulder, somewhere on the case body? If so where on the case body?

It's just fired brass that I've resized and I'm putting it in the receiver and closing the bolt.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

Looks like you've got some chamber issues.

 

[bcp]

I don't think it is a chamber problem. Some of his brass chambers OK after FL resizing. Only his brass from the 700 doesn't chamber in the 77 after FL resizing. See post #5.

All neck dies I've seen say "NK"or "Neck" on them somewhere.

How many times have the 700 cases been reloaded? Maybe they are springing back a bit after sizing and so need annealing.

Bruce

 

[NeoBlackdog]

I don't think it is a chamber problem. Some of his brass chambers OK after FL resizing. Only his brass from the 700 doesn't chamber in the 77 after FL resizing. See post #5.

All neck dies I've seen say "NK"or "Neck" on them somewhere.

How many times have the 700 cases been reloaded? Maybe they are springing back a bit after sizing and so need annealing.

Bruce

Did you see the gouges in the brass he tried to chamber?

 

[bcp]

Did you see the gouges in the brass he tried to chamber?

But he didn't mention any on the cases that did chamber.

Shoulder, neck, or base being too large won't make a gouge like that.

Need more information.

Bruce

 

[Koda]

Theres no logical reason brass fired in one rifle then resized in a full length die would not fit another rifle of the same caliber.

 

[drstrangelove]

Theres no logical reason brass fired in one rifle then resized in a full length die would not fit another rifle of the same caliber.

Unless there is a big carbon ring or something hard enough to scratch brass in the chamber. Get a bore scope and have a proper look.

 

[2ndtimer]

Different rifles have different chambers. My son's Savage in .300 Win Mag would easily accept fired brass from his buddy's Browning .300 Win Mag WITHOUT resizing. And try as I might, I struggled to sufficiently resize his buddy's brass to be able to chamber reloaded ammo in his Browning. Clearly it was a minimum spec tight chamber, while the old Savage was on the generous size.
Did you try the "cam over"? Screw the sizing die down to the shell holder. Then raise the ram and turn the die down an additional half turn. Theis takes the flex out of the press and is what I had to do to .270WSM loads to successfully chamber in a Model 70.

 

[Koda]

Whats the trim length after FL sizing?

What is the untrimmed case overall length after resizing?

 

[drstrangelove]

https://www.amazon.com/RCBSRCBS-Small-Base-Remington-Magnum/dp/B000NOQIPO?th=1

 

[iron_road]

What is the untrimmed case overall length after resizing?

Brass is once fired batch of factory ammo of a variety of manufacturers ranging from Hornady to Remington an Sierra.

And yes the brass length is trimmed to or ten thousandths of an inch slightly under 2.500in per Richard Lee Modern Reloading book 2nd edition.

Everything else about the cases when taking my calipers to the rest of the case dimensions are in spec by under thousandths of an inch.

If everything is still in spec but won't go in but factory ammo and spent casing that came with the gun will, I don't know what the problem is.

 

[iron_road]

I don't think it is a chamber problem. Some of his brass chambers OK after FL resizing. Only his brass from the 700 doesn't chamber in the 77 after FL resizing. See post #5.

All neck dies I've seen say "NK"or "Neck" on them somewhere.

How many times have the 700 cases been reloaded? Maybe they are springing back a bit after sizing and so need annealing.

Bruce

None. This is the first they've been shot and ran through the press which is why I'm so confused as to how it's such a problem.

 

[iron_road]

I dont understand this, "one of them is "bound" to be full length" If you cant identify the die throw it away. You cant find the cause with stuff you dont know what it is.
Regarding FL die setup... I would stop backing the die off, set it up per its instructions (screw it down all the way) and dont mess with shoulder bumping. A properly set up FL die will size the case slightly smaller than saami spec, if that sized case doesnt fit then the problem is in the guns chamber.

Also the trim question. When you size a case the mandrel also sizes the neck ID, as the neck ID is being expanded it causes the case length to grow. If it grows too much past saami spec then it wont chamber. You need to measure this and know this isnt part of the problem.

I'm not backing the die off that's the thing. And when I bought the sets I bought them brand new at the store. On the the box FULL LENGTH. I didn't just go to a gun store a found some rusted dies and them with WD40 to knock the rust off.

Calipers says brass is fine. All in spec. The reason my uncle and I shoulder bump is because even with factory ammo the bullet is somewhat seated at an oblique angle.

By shoulder bumping it straightens that bullet out when you go to seat so it's near perfect in the chamber. He said in the old books the bench resters found this improved accuracy immensely. Every handload he makes with that method produced dime size groups for every gun he's ever made them for.

 

[Koda]

I'm not backing the die off that's the thing. And when I bought the sets I bought them brand new at the store. On the the box FULL LENGTH. I didn't just go to a gun store a found some rusted dies and them with WD40 to knock the rust off.

Calipers says brass is fine. All in spec. The reason my uncle and I shoulder bump is because even with factory ammo the bullet is somewhat seated at an oblique angle.

By shoulder bumping it straightens that bullet out when you go to seat so it's near perfect in the chamber. He said in the old books the bench resters found this improved accuracy immensely. Every handload he makes with that method produced dime size groups for every gun he's ever made them for.

Shoulder bumping doesnt straighten a bullet out.
I would measure your shoulder datum with a comparator. If you full lenght size, without shoulder bumping but truly FL size the case it should be slightly smaller than saami spec but the only way to know is if you measure the shoulder datum. If your not sizing the full length of the case then it might not fit other rifles. Annealing might help it form better too, its worth noting.

 

[bcp]

Measure and compare the neck, shoulder, above belt, and belt diameter on both the cases that chamber and those that don't.

Bruce