Gun Show Loophole

RVTECH · Sep 17, 2013

While I am trying to get my cousin to understand some of the dynamics of DC as I posted previously, he is really not as 'liberal' in his thinking as I thought BUT he is somewhat stuck believing:

also why can you buy assault rifles, handguns with large clips online and guns shows without having background checks?

So I think he is confusing issues here. I can handle his 'online' question but can someone give me a clear and concise description of the 'gun show loophole' I can pass along to him? Reason is I am not exactly clear on it myself. Thanks.

deen_ad · Sep 17, 2013

There isn't one!!

It's a fabrication made up by the anti-gunners to support their agenda.

A dealer selling at a gun show has to complete the same paperwork and background check as at his shop. No diffference. All weapons up for sale at a gun show must comply with the same laws as at his shop.

The "difference" is that the gun show gets lots of customers to come in and see what is for sale. This includes private sellers that can sell their privately owned weapons to other citizens without running a background check. In fact, a private seller can't even run a background check if they wanted as the NICS system is only available to FFL licensed dealers. In OR any seller at a show (even private ones) must do a background check through the state.

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
"Defender of Freedom" award
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"

Nwcid · Sep 17, 2013

The "loop hole' is the fact that it is legal by Federal law and most state laws for FTF transfers to happen.

IF you are an FFL it does not matter where you sell there HAS to be 4473 done. In the store, at a gun show, on the street, ect a 4473 HAS to be done.

The "loop hole" is that if you are a private person and are selling fact to face there is no 4473 done. It does not matter if it is in the paper, on this site or at a gun show. So now this legal sale of private firearms is called a "loop hole" when it comes to gun shows. I believe that OR has a law dealing with gun shows and that ALL sales at the venue still need to go though an FFL even if private. I know in WA state the WAC, who claims to be pro gun, has added the restriction above and beyond state law (but some how they are pro gun so I get confused) that to be a member you have to go though a background check and to be able to purchase guns at the shows they put on you HAVE to be a member. I am glad they are sticking to the west side of the state.

Online sales needing an FFL depends. If you buy a gun on here and it does not cross state lines no FFL is needed. Now if the sale crosses state lines it will need an FFL for the transfer.

What is really comes down to is people talking about things they dont understand, with no facts, and then other people repeating it.........

deen_ad · Sep 17, 2013

The WAC rules are to protect the club from criminals trying to buy at their shows. When I buy or sell there I'm assured that the transaction is legal. No sales are allowed in the parking areas either. Their own members and security have stopped "news" crews trying to do buys in the parking lots and show them on TV.

Personally I'm glad for the extra layer of security.

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
"Defender of Freedom" award
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"Having a gun is like a parachute, if you need one and don't have it you may never need it again"

oknow · Sep 17, 2013

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :s0155:

#2 and #3^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BAMCIS · Sep 17, 2013

deen_ad said:
There isn't one!!

It's a fabrication mode up by the anti-gunners to support their agenda.

That's about as concise as it can get.

MinnesotaORnewbie · Sep 17, 2013

Yep, tell him its false. The only possible loop hole would be dude with a sign around his neck, at the gun show, saying gun for sale. But he as the seller has the responsibility to not sell to a person on noticeably drugs, mentally ill, drunk, or if the person says they are a felon and a resident of the same state. Then tell him this person is doing the same thing that millions of people do all over the U.S. but use the internet as their form of advertisement and focus other gun enthusiast through gun forums compared to using the sheer numbers of gun enthusiast congregating in one area at a show.

cookie · Sep 17, 2013

If it is heard on the mainstream media it has to be gospel truth . Ask anybody who voted for Obama.

optiontrigger · Sep 17, 2013

Agree with the others. "Gun Show Loophole" is nothing but a repeatable phrase for an anti-gun agenda. There is no legal difference in a person legally selling to another person in the parking lot of Home Depot or a police station or a gun show. The only difference is that FTF sales is generally started through a WTS ad in a site like this vs a crowded venue like a gun show.

I almost believe that the anti-intelligent media have a marketing genius who creates phrases like "common sense gun laws" that flow off the tongue easily, are easy to remember, and are difficult for us to interpret, all for the ignorant, since they don't seem capable of more difficult and rational thought.

timberfaller · Sep 17, 2013

Gun show loophole, is a phrase con-cocked by non other then Chuckie Schumner of NY.

Only to impress his fellow liberals/socialist.

If you can't get through to him from whats already been posted, in simple terms is "a private Citizen selling to another private Citizen" NOTHING illegal what so ever!

And it just gulls the liberals that "citizens" could have that much Freedom and Liberty!!

Modeler · Sep 17, 2013

If he lives in Oregon tell him that it doesn't exist. Every gun show transaction in Oregon has to go through the OSP background check.

RVTECH · Sep 18, 2013

If he lives in Oregon tell him that it doesn't exist.

He lives in Arizona and while he is not in any way anti-gun he seems to have issues with what he describes as "public and private gun shows held by dealers where anything goes" And he describes Arizona as a 'Gun Crazy' state. I think he is referring to the possibility of private FTF sales, BUT I have not yet personally researched AZ laws. Anyone familiar with the basics in AZ? My cousin is simply confused and IS operating a little on emotion and I am trying to get him to understand logic. He responds well to FACTS and the prevailing laws and I I have already cleared him up on a few things - one being the farce of 'gun registration'.

One-Eyed Ross · Sep 18, 2013

Well, to get a copy of every gun law in the US, you can get a CD from the ATF if you have an FFL....they used to send out hard copies of the laws, but I guess it got to expensive to print and ship out every year, what with all the knee jerk reaction laws that get passed every year...

Nwcid · Sep 18, 2013

Not sure why you need to be an FFL to access what is readily available online from the ATF, <broken link removed>

Keep in mind as stated the ATF is usually a year or two behind the state laws. As far as I am aware every state has some kinda of state level website that has the most up to date laws.

I believe that AZ for the most part follows very close to Federal law.

oknow · Sep 18, 2013

One-Eyed Ross said:
Well, to get a copy of every gun law in the US, you can get a CD from the ATF if you have an FFL....they used to send out hard copies of the laws, but I guess it got to expensive to print and ship out every year, what with all the knee jerk reaction laws that get passed every year...

or go here
gunlaws.com - State by State Firearms Laws

Provincial · Sep 18, 2013

Did you tell him that in Arizona he should be more concerned about the Fast & Furious Loophole than the Gun Show Loophole? It has killed a lot more people!