Glock 43 Fires Out-of-Battery

[Lilhigbee]

Mayhaps our cat-loving, speed-demon of an OP (LOL.... ) should make some reloads with known hard primers that are analogous to milspec, and check the results!

Interesting you should mention this. If you refer to the OP you will see a mention of a problem with Tula primers. To keep the story short, the brass ones work fine but the nickel-plated ones tend to FTF. Sometimes two or three strikes to get them to fire. Looking through the OoB (Out-of-Battery)-fired and unfired cases there seems to be a mix of the two. Not sure how many of each were loaded at the time, but there are plenty of each in the problem pile. I was going to start another thread on that topic but it is well documented online. This Glock hasn't shown a problem with either primer other than the OoB problem under discussion, and that applies to both primers. The only FTF's have been when the primer strike was WAY out of center. My Ultrastar .40 and my friend's Sig .40 (don't know the model) both had trouble with the nickel-plated primers.

With all due respect sir. A good weapon should NEVER fire out of battery.

This is also my belief and the reason I started the thread. I'm still hoping our resident gunsmiths will weigh in with an opinion.
Perhaps Glock is a Microsoft gun; "That's not a bug, it's a feature!!"

I realize the gun is not far enough OoB to rupture a case, and therefore we will try it with factory ammo when we get a chance. However I do feel it is more than far enough OoB to affect the timing of its function. Without the delay imparted by the barrel and slide being locked together it seems like there would be undo hammering on the frame.

As to the reloads; Not once have I indicated that they are NOT the reason that the gun doesn't go into battery; they very well may be. I will say again that these same reloads have been through a number of other guns without incident. For those that are curious they are 124 gr. Xtreme RN bullets set to a COAL 1.154" with 6.2 gr. HS-6 and the aforementioned Tula primers in range pickup brass. All loaded on a Dillon 550 with a Dillon die set.

As I see it there are two separate problems; the gun not going into battery, which may very well be ammo related, and the gun firing OoB, which it will do with no ammo at all and is a reflection on its design. The purpose of this thread was to explore the firing OoB problem.

For those who are still reading and like numbers, the gun will still fire with the back of the barrel dropped .062", measured from the top of the slide to the top of the barrel hood on the rearmost portion of the barrel.

 

[Kruel J]

Good info for sure. I guess my point is more that the gun not going into full battery is the heart of these issues. As far as it being able to drop the striker slightly out of battery? It seems to be a commonality with all of our Glocks. And I'm sure not going to try and replicate it. I don't actually know if it would go off if the gun was slightly out of battery. I don't expect Glock to go back to the drawing board on account of us noticing that its possible to happen. I'd say if you are concerned enough maybe send it back to Glock for inspection? It could be your gun is far enough out of spec for it to be an issue.

But as pointed out to me earlier, my ignorance and unsafe advice shouldn't be considered. YMMV.

 

[bbbass]

I "plunk" test all of my handgun ammo in my 3rd gen smiths. They always go bang, no failures whatsoever. My glock, not so much. Maybe that's why my glock is now a m96 Swedish mauser. Ha ha. Sorry lgs, I got the better end of that deal.

Whatever, lad. You totally whiffed the point of my post! (edit: I had to go all the way back to page 1 to find what you are quoting out of context.) The point I was making is that the OPer said he was plunking a few of his reloads. Not a good practice IMO. Your point that all your reloads go bang is immaterial as regards what I was pointing out... that not ALL reloads will pass a plunk test or even a case gauge test. And that range picked up brass seems to be the issue in that case... just in case that is what the OP is doing.

What is the purpose of this comment and how far back in this thread did you have to go? I've slept since then. If you are just messing with me for fun, please put a wink or a smile in your comment. Otherwise, please pay particular attention to order:

Bless your Smiths and bless your sweet little heart.

My bedside gun is now an AR15 pistol... WGAS!!!! (That doesn't mean "What A Gas)

 

[Kruel J]

Whatever, lad. What is the purpose of this comment and how far back in this thread did you have to go? I've slept since then.

Bless your Smiths and bless your sweet little heart.

My bedside gun is now an AR15 pistol... WGAS!!!!

Yeahbut, haven't you heard that the 5.56 through a short barrel neuters it to barely as effective as a BB gun??

Good choice BTW. I love me some AR pistol action!

 

[bbbass]

Yeahbut, haven't you heard that the 5.56 through a short barrel neuters it to barely as effective as a BB gun??

Good choice BTW. I love me some AR pistol action!

I've had a lot of fun with it. Can't wait to get a PCC for IDPA... but in all reality, due to financial that's not likely to happen.

 

[Kruel J]

I've had a lot of fun with it. Can't wait to get a PCC for IDPA... but in all reality, due to financial that's not likely to happen.

I'm on the prowl for an MP5 clone. Hopefully by the end of the month......

 

[bbbass]

SMITHs SUCK! GLOCKs ROCK!

There, I feel better now that I have taken a position in this battle.

 

[titsonritz]

Pissing in the wind is what you insist he's doing because it's a beloved Glock.

If he's a reloader with any sort of experience, reloading 9mm parabellum is as easy as it gets. If someone came to me and asked which cartridge should they learn to reload, it would be 9x19 because it's so freaking easy as a straight wall cartridge.

Now if you can't understand there are things like manufacturing tolerances that can lead to different guns disconnecting at different unlocking positions, then that's another issue. Yet don't bring your ignorance into the conversation and start suggesting unsafe practices.

If the gun is suspected to be firing out of battery, it is patently unsafe and he should return it to the manufacturer immediately or a good gunsmith. Not run a whole bunch of factory ammunition through it which may also cause a case head separation.

You're giving unsafe advice because you think it can't be the gun because Glock is perfect. That's dangerous hubris. Glocktardia to the extreme.

There has been no sound logic or troubleshooting steps suggested to this problem from the beginning. That's called pissing in the wind, gents.

Out.

There's an awful lot of "if" coming off this plan.

The two most common issues with ANY (not just Glock) semi-auto pistol will be mags and ammo. Is it really too much of a stretch to say, "Hey, why not try some factory ammo or even a couple different kinds?" or I guess one can continue to ignore the operators manual and keep using reloads.

You talk about "Glocktardia to the extreme", you are obviously a Glock hater, but whatever, I guess you fail to accept that nearly every other firearm manufacturer has been playing catch up trying to emulate them for a couple decade now, probably because they suck.

 

[Kruel J]

There's an awful lot of "if" coming off this plan.

The two most common issues with ANY (not just Glock) semi-auto pistol will be mags and ammo. Is it really too much of a stretch to say, "Hey, why not try some factory ammo or even a couple different kinds?" or I guess one can continue to ignore the operators manual and keep using reloads.

You talk about "Glocktardia to the extreme", you are obviously a Glock hater, but whatever, I guess you fail to accept that nearly every other firearm manufacturer has been playing catch up trying to emulate them for a couple decade now, probably because they suck.

Yeah. This. A whole bunch THIS.

 

[edzz]

Pissing in the wind is what you insist he's doing because it's a beloved Glock.

If he's a reloader with any sort of experience, reloading 9mm parabellum is as easy as it gets. If someone came to me and asked which cartridge should they learn to reload, it would be 9x19 because it's so freaking easy as a straight wall cartridge.

Now if you can't understand there are things like manufacturing tolerances that can lead to different guns disconnecting at different unlocking positions, then that's another issue. Yet don't bring your ignorance into the conversation and start suggesting unsafe practices.

If the gun is suspected to be firing out of battery, it is patently unsafe and he should return it to the manufacturer immediately or a good gunsmith. Not run a whole bunch of factory ammunition through it which may also cause a case head separation.

You're giving unsafe advice because you think it can't be the gun because Glock is perfect. That's dangerous hubris. Glocktardia to the extreme.

There has been no sound logic or troubleshooting steps suggested to this problem from the beginning. That's called pissing in the wind, gents.

Out.

Can you provide a link to any drawing that shows the 9 mm Luger (9x19) as being a straight wall case as loaded from the factory? While I do agree that many reloads are produced using dies that create a more or less straight wall case the speck calls for the case to be tapered. Just saying.

The rest of your post I don't find argument with.

 

[Lilhigbee]

So we finally got to the range with some factory ammo, Blazer Brass. Same results, 20% fired OoB. No surprise.
The LGS where she bought the gun has checked all of the 43's they've gotten since she bought this one and all do the same thing. The LGS owner called Glock and the response he got was "Shoot it slower."
After inspecting the gun further, I see it has no provision for a real disconnect at all. As long as the striker is in contact with the trigger bar the gun will try to fire. Only after the slide has moved back far enough that when the trigger is pulled the trigger bar is pushed down by the connector before it gets to the striker will the gun NOT try to fire.
Something I hadn't touched on before is the impact on accuracy. With the back of the barrel .030"-.040" down when the gun fires it is going to shoot quite high.
So having eliminated the ammo as the problem, and discovering that the gun is functioning as designed, poorly designed, I want to thank everyone who has followed along and offered their comments and ideas.
My next step is to buy a trigger bar and rework the geometry of the firing system to eliminate the OoB problem. It will result in a slightly longer trigger pull, but the OoB situation is unacceptable.
Perfection!!

 

[mkwerx]

So we finally got to the range with some factory ammo, Blazer Brass. Same results, 20% fired OoB. No surprise.
The LGS where she bought the gun has checked all of the 43's they've gotten since she bought this one and all do the same thing. The LGS owner called Glock and the response he got was "Shoot it slower."
After inspecting the gun further, I see it has no provision for a real disconnect at all. As long as the striker is in contact with the trigger bar the gun will try to fire. Only after the slide has moved back far enough that when the trigger is pulled the trigger bar is pushed down by the connector before it gets to the striker will the gun NOT try to fire.
Something I hadn't touched on before is the impact on accuracy. With the back of the barrel .030"-.040" down when the gun fires it is going to shoot quite high.
So having eliminated the ammo as the problem, and discovering that the gun is functioning as designed, poorly designed, I want to thank everyone who has followed along and offered their comments and ideas.
My next step is to buy a trigger bar and rework the geometry of the firing system to eliminate the OoB problem. It will result in a slightly longer trigger pull, but the OoB situation is unacceptable.
Perfection!!

Shoot the gun slower....thats as retarded a response as Sig saying striker drag is perfectly normal and acceptible on their p365s. If the gun is not locking up all the way something is amiss, and its not the shooters timing. Maybe contact Apex and see about their trigger before filing on your oem trigger bar? They typically have better triggers than stock, maybe their trigger bar geometry solves your issue as well?