National FRT trigger legality

[fd15k]

"No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility."

That didn't stop certain States from doing just that.

Like all other provisions in the Constitution ex post facto has to be enforced after the fact. Just because it reads like an upfront prohibition doesn't mean the legislature can't in fact pass such law.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Like all other provisions in the Constitution ex post facto has to be enforced after the fact. Just because it reads like an upfront prohibition doesn't mean the legislature can't in fact pass such law.

Yea.... And we can't really depend on the US federal DOJ to actually go after States for violating 18 USC Sections 241, 242, and infringing/violating citizens' 2A rights.

 

[wired]

Very interesting. Complying with district court order. Being that Bondi has been instructed to ID anything violating 2A they may be trying to get their house in order for anything that could be low hanging fruit for USDOJ. Just guessing here but it's logical.

I think it wasn't a directive to find anything violating the second amendment. It was more a directive to find anything Biden had done to violate the Second Amendment. Trumps need to spite Biden is far greater than any admiration for the second amendment.

 

[Catbox]

So anyone that owns such a device, then becomes a criminal when the law is passed.
Awesome.

After that I they no longer have to follow any rules as the script has been flipped for me them.

 

[wired]

So anyone that owns such a device, then becomes a criminal when the law is passed.
Awesome.

After that I they no longer have to follow any rules as the script has been flipped for me them.

When they made cocaine illegal, you didn't get to keep your cocaine

 

[Jcon268]

Delta team tactical and MMC armory have them. and they're 3pos ones now. I would imagine that they are either paying Lawrence Demonico or he's given up going after them for the patent or they payed the originator the patent fees to reproduce. There are several other smaller outfits making them and selling them for less than what DTT and MMC are selling them for btw. You just have to know where to look.
And as far as Twin Bros, the ones that supposedly got busted for Super safe's. That was all a big rouse. They just blamed that so they could duck out with every ones money. There was never a word about it happening after that. But SS can be found for way less than FRT's and many many being sold out there from what I've been hearing.
I personally like precise shots. But I think everyone should be able to buy whatever they want. Especially because if they are using an FRT/SS they always leave their brass behind in a nice neat pile. I got a few hundred 300blackout brass from the range yesterday from someone that was probably using one of the said above triggers. Heard from the pistol pits, and went to inspect afterwards knowing there would be a score.
America! Am I right?

My guess is they're working directly with Demonico and he's getting a good cut with them on production. On a side note, Demonico is getting a lot of heat from the super safety/Hoffman community as apparently he's issued cease and desists to them in addition to the FRT copiers, despite clearly different design and function. Hoffman designed it as a printable open file. I guess Hoffman and Demonico have some history together. He went from the hero of the community to the scourge pretty quickly

 

[Jcon268]

When they made cocaine illegal, you didn't get to keep your cocaine

Cocaine is actually a great example of how well these laws work.

 

[MTpockets]

Conducted a quick search and didn't see this posted anywhere… Just a heads up for anyone interested.

Department of Justice Announces Settlement of Litigation Between the Federal Government and Rare Breed Triggers

Today, in accordance with President Trump’s Executive Order Protecting Second Amendment Rights, as well as the Attorney General’s Second Amendment Enforcement Task Force, the Department of Justice announced the settlement of litigation between the federal government and Rare Breed Triggers.

www.justice.gov

Today, in accordance with President Trump's Executive Order Protecting Second Amendment Rights, as well as the Attorney General's Second Amendment Enforcement Task Force, the Department of Justice announced the settlement of litigation between the federal government and Rare Breed Triggers.
"This Department of Justice believes that the 2nd Amendment is not a second-class right," said Attorney General Pamela Bondi. "And we are glad to end a needless cycle of litigation with a settlement that will enhance public safety."
In June 2024, in Cargill v. Garland, the Supreme Court held that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) exceeded its statutory authority by issuing a rule classifying a bump stock as a "machinegun." In July 2024, the Northern District of Texas applied Cargill v. Garland to a device called a "forced-reset trigger" (FRT) and concluded that FRTs also cannot be classified as a "machinegun."
The Department's agreement with Rare Breed Triggers avoids the need for continued appeals in United States v. Rare Breed Triggers and continued litigation in other, related cases concerning the same issue. The settlement includes agreed-upon conditions that significantly advance public safety with respect to FRTs, including that Rare Breed will not develop or design FRTs for use in any pistol and will enforce its patents to prevent infringement that could threaten public safety. Rare Breed also agrees to promote the safe and responsible use of its products.
The cases that will be resolved under the settlement agreement are:

• NAGR v. Garland, 23-cv-830-O (N.D. Tex.), on appeal 24-10707 (5th Cir.).
• United States v. Rare Breed Triggers LLC, No. 23-cv-369 (E.D.N.Y), on appeal 23-7276 (2d Cir.).
• United States v. Miscellaneous Firearms and Related Parts and Equipment Listed in Exhibit A, 23-cv-17 (D. Utah).

Updated May 16, 2025

 

[CamoDeafie]

Conducted a quick search and didn't see this posted anywhere… Just a heads up for anyone interested.

Department of Justice Announces Settlement of Litigation Between the Federal Government and Rare Breed Triggers

Today, in accordance with President Trump’s Executive Order Protecting Second Amendment Rights, as well as the Attorney General’s Second Amendment Enforcement Task Force, the Department of Justice announced the settlement of litigation between the federal government and Rare Breed Triggers.

www.justice.gov

Today, in accordance with President Trump's Executive Order Protecting Second Amendment Rights, as well as the Attorney General's Second Amendment Enforcement Task Force, the Department of Justice announced the settlement of litigation between the federal government and Rare Breed Triggers.
"This Department of Justice believes that the 2nd Amendment is not a second-class right," said Attorney General Pamela Bondi. "And we are glad to end a needless cycle of litigation with a settlement that will enhance public safety."
In June 2024, in Cargill v. Garland, the Supreme Court held that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) exceeded its statutory authority by issuing a rule classifying a bump stock as a "machinegun." In July 2024, the Northern District of Texas applied Cargill v. Garland to a device called a "forced-reset trigger" (FRT) and concluded that FRTs also cannot be classified as a "machinegun."
The Department's agreement with Rare Breed Triggers avoids the need for continued appeals in United States v. Rare Breed Triggers and continued litigation in other, related cases concerning the same issue. The settlement includes agreed-upon conditions that significantly advance public safety with respect to FRTs, including that Rare Breed will not develop or design FRTs for use in any pistol and will enforce its patents to prevent infringement that could threaten public safety. Rare Breed also agrees to promote the safe and responsible use of its products.
The cases that will be resolved under the settlement agreement are:

• NAGR v. Garland, 23-cv-830-O (N.D. Tex.), on appeal 24-10707 (5th Cir.).
• United States v. Rare Breed Triggers LLC, No. 23-cv-369 (E.D.N.Y), on appeal 23-7276 (2d Cir.).
• United States v. Miscellaneous Firearms and Related Parts and Equipment Listed in Exhibit A, 23-cv-17 (D. Utah).

Updated May 16, 2025

So, has the NY AG reversed their course on that lawsuit against Rare Breed?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Wow!

 

[RedLetter]

So, has the NY AG reversed their course on that lawsuit against Rare Breed?

Yes

 

[wired]

My guess is they're working directly with Demonico and he's getting a good cut with them on production. On a side note, Demonico is getting a lot of heat from the super safety/Hoffman community as apparently he's issued cease and desists to them in addition to the FRT copiers, despite clearly different design and function. Hoffman designed it as a printable open file. I guess Hoffman and Demonico have some history together. He went from the hero of the community to the scourge pretty quickly

As an engineer who knows a little about patent law from school and a few patent infringement lawsuits Ive been a witness in I'd say that rare breed has a very good case to argue infringement of their utility patent. They absolutely should sue the pants off the blatant offender drop in cartridge makers but even the Super Safeties apply the same mechanical principles outlined in Rare Breeds patent. I know the SS guys are a bunch of open source nerds but we have patent law for a reason.

"No one will protect your patent !" is a completely true axiom. YOU have to protect your patent.

 

[Koda]

Here is what Everytown has to say about this ruling....

https://www.facebook.com/Everytown/posts/pfbid06yegaFn9QcUpdFvaWaDPPYrVow9swqoEYvfUW9531ws3iWhKVJXKjRHNaaanvpLvl

View: https://www.facebook.com/Everytown/posts/pfbid06yegaFn9QcUpdFvaWaDPPYrVow9swqoEYvfUW9531ws3iWhKVJXKjRHNaaanvpLvl

 

[wired]

Here is what Everytown has to say about this ruling....

https://www.facebook.com/Everytown/posts/pfbid06yegaFn9QcUpdFvaWaDPPYrVow9swqoEYvfUW9531ws3iWhKVJXKjRHNaaanvpLvl

View: https://www.facebook.com/Everytown/posts/pfbid06yegaFn9QcUpdFvaWaDPPYrVow9swqoEYvfUW9531ws3iWhKVJXKjRHNaaanvpLvl

Rock on

 

[CamoDeafie]

Everytown is wrong again the FRT is technically not a machine gun

Not like the Glock switch or autosear things

 

[wired]

Everytown is wrong again the FRT is technically not a machine gun

Not like the Glock switch or autosear things

To be fair they did say mimic

 

[CamoDeafie]

To be fair they did say mimic

The same way Jerry Miculek mimics an automatic revolver?

And I'm bagging on Everytown because machine guns have always been legal, its just that one needed a SOT FFL and be in business of selling them to military and LE in order to get post-86 machine guns.. and pre 86 machine guns are fully legal for civilians who can afford them... Just like suppressors, short barreled firearms and AOWs with the NFA.

 

[wired]

The same way Jerry Miculek mimics an automatic revolver?

And I'm bagging on Everytown because machine guns have always been legal, its just that one needed a SOT FFL and be in business of selling them to military and LE in order to get post-86 machine guns.. and pre 86 machine guns are fully legal for civilians who can afford them... Just like suppressors, short barreled firearms and AOWs with the NFA.

You don't say.

 

[RedLetter]

Gotta love this.

 

[Jcon268]

As an engineer who knows a little about patent law from school and a few patent infringement lawsuits Ive been a witness in I'd say that rare breed has a very good case to argue infringement of their utility patent. They absolutely should sue the pants off the blatant offender drop in cartridge makers but even the Super Safeties apply the same mechanical principles outlined in Rare Breeds patent. I know the SS guys are a bunch of open source nerds but we have patent law for a reason.

"No one will protect your patent !" is a completely true axiom. YOU have to protect your patent.

But all the SS is, is a cut safety and lever. You then use a milspec that you have to modify which is any trigger you can buy in any gun store. Drop in FRT, conversely, is just the trigger. So they're selling two different but interacting parts of a system. It would be like an engine and transmission.
In any event I don't feel bad for Rarebreed or the actual patent holder if they lose on sales on a product they've never even brought to market themselves. It seems petty and in the end, I think they'll have their hands more than full trying to contain such widespread information from being produced. The 2A wants their hands on these things before they inevitably come after them (they'll never give up). A couple of things to note, they've also threatened individuals for printing for self use and threatened SS sellers over auxiliary items that weren't components of the SS itself. It's pretty wild the number of fronts the 2A community is fighting on and then they have their own to deal with as well.