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Engraving a lower

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Nickb, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Nickb

    Nickb Moxee Active Member

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    First off sorry if this is in the wrong place, I figured it a "legal" question.

    I work at a machine shop and have done some off-road parts for a buddy that I engraved his company logo in them. A friend of his asked if I could engrave his lower for him. I have never done anything firearm related for other people, so is it legal for me to engrave his lower for him?
    Thanks.
     
  2. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    The only issue I see is that the transferring of a firearm from he to you, then back to him.

    "Supposedly" the logic behind the prohibition of that action is:
    He "could" commit a crime or be charged with something in the lag time between him giving you a firearm and you in turn giving it back to him where as he would normally be denied because of any said charge/conviction. So a BGC is usually required unless he is present during.

    So long as they are present during the process and the serial number isn't defaced there isn't an issue or so Ive been told.

    Aside from that have fun.
     
    1337BaldEagle and Nickb like this.
  3. Nickb

    Nickb Moxee Active Member

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    No problem with him hanging out while I engrave it. He's a local LEO and needs his name, city and state on there for a SBR.
     
  4. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Sweet! Have at it! :)
     
    Nickb likes this.
  5. Nickb

    Nickb Moxee Active Member

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    Thanks for your help!
     
  6. tanzuki

    tanzuki Salem Active Member

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    So whats this? Are you not legally with in the law if your friend was going shooting and you let him borrow one of your weapons? Huh...I would have never thought.o_O
     
  7. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    In this case it may be considered a sort of 'manufacturing' by the ATF since work is being done on the lower. Far different than lending for use, at least in the eyes of .gov.
     
    Nickb likes this.
  8. mkwerx

    mkwerx Forest Grove, OR Well-Known Member

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    THere's no manufacturing going on - he's just adding the legally required text to the lower for his friend to build an SBR. The text has to be engraved on the lower - and any engraver can do this. It is not making any alteration to the firearm in a functional way.
     
  9. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Notice post #3 above. This is for an SBR and the ATF considers registering a general AR lower as an SBR lower as manufacturing.
     
  10. mkwerx

    mkwerx Forest Grove, OR Well-Known Member

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    Registering - the named person is the manufacturer. The engraver is not manufacturing anything. He is not making any functional change. Abd the lower must be engraved before any "manufacturing" takes place.
     
  11. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    Then it's the possession and timing of the paperwork and approval that is key.
     
  12. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Without a short length upper, the lower is just a lower. It's not a SBR, so you can give it to anyone who is legal to posess a firearm. Regardless of when a stamp is approved.
     
  13. del_and_bones

    del_and_bones Anchorage, AK Physics Pirate

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    A SBR lower that has an associated form and entry in the NFA registry is still an SBR until it is removed from the registry and the ATF is notified. Even putting a 16" upper on a SBR lower won't make it a title 1 firearm again unless you tell the ATF that it is a permanent change.

    To the OP:

    Before stamp returns: any person can engrave the firearm and have it left in their possession.

    After stamp returns: any person can engrave the firearm but it can't be left in their possession unless they are a SOT, gunsmith, or listed in the trust/LLC/corp that owns the firearm.

    Putting the upper on the lower is the "manufacturing," not the engraving of the lower. The "manufacturer" has to engrave their info on the firearm, not the engraver's info.
     
  14. Nickb

    Nickb Moxee Active Member

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    Thanks for the replies everyone. I just wanted to make sure I was good to go with him waiting there. Like I said over never done any firearm work for anyone but myself.
    On a side note, how about engraving 80% lowers?
     
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  15. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Del- yes and no. Yes it remains in the system as a "SBR", a title II firearm until permanently removed from the registry.
    No, possession of the lower by itself does not constitute possessing a SBR. I can take a Registered SBR lower across state lines WITHOUT a F20 as long as it IS NOT in a SBR configuration. I can loan it to my buddy with a 16" upper and its not a transfer and completely legal.

    It is only a SBR when in a SBR configuration.
     
  16. 1337BaldEagle

    1337BaldEagle Earth Active Member

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    I would say if you're going that route you're even safer than having him there with a finished lower. An 80% is nothing more than a lump of metal, technically.


    Eagle
     
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  17. del_and_bones

    del_and_bones Anchorage, AK Physics Pirate

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    SCARed thanks for the heads up, I'm with you on most of the points. I found an ATF letter that spells it out. However, according to the ATF's website, if you retain the parts necessary parts to build the SBR it is still a SBR. I can see the legal ways around it, but personally won't open myself up to the liability and possibility of legal issues. IANAL YMMV

    Nick, anyone can send, receive, and engrave 80% lowers. I just sent 2 to CA to be engraved (CA is a minor nightmare for shipping firearms).
     
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  18. Nickb

    Nickb Moxee Active Member

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    If you want to send them to Yakima get a hold of me.
     
  19. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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    I learn something everyday. :)