Electrical question

[joken]

Went to a rental of ours today for a tripping breaker. Breaker was hot and the wire was baked on the 15 amp ckt. I asked the guy if they were running an electric heater and they were. OK fine, I cut the wire back to clean and replaced the breaker. I put my amp meter on the ckt and it was drawing just under 3 amps. I told them to turn everything off and unplug what could be unplugged. It's still drawing 3 amps. It's a duplex and I had some dirtbags in the other side and am wondering if they were ambitious enough to go into the attic and tap into this circuit? I'm going back tomorrow to verify that all loads in the place are off. Anyone got any other ideas where this load is if I verify that everything is off? Seems like 3 amps of resistance in a connection somewhere would make itself known.

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[rick benjamin]

Amps Current
Ohms Resistance

Door bell transformer?

 

[joken]

I'll check it. Thanks! I know the PIE, EIR stuff. I was trying to say that a resistance drawing 3 amps should make itself known over time if it was a loose connection for example.

 

[Stomper]

Yeah, an amp draw shows the amount of load (or current) flowing through a circuit, not the resistance.

It's possible that you could have a short-circuit to water piping, or electrical conduit that is just enough in a "sweet spot" with enough reisitence to not cause a ground-fault and cause a load on the circuit.

Also, a cooked breaker and melty wire insulation at the ends is indicitive of a loose connection at the lug-terminal of the breaker which is remedied by re-torquing the lug-terminal. It's also idicitive the breaker may have a loose connection the the panel bus.

GFCI & AFCI breakers are spendy, but they sure do pare out a LOT of hazardous issues.

 

[jbett98]

Put the amp meter back on that 15 amp circuit and then go and turn off, then back on every breaker in the panel and see if anything happens.

 

[cigars]

Microwave, toaster and space heater on the same circuit maybe? That circuit shared with both sides of the duplex by chance?

 

[jbett98]

I was called to a rental house in Felony Flats in SE Portland that had some weird issues going on.
It was a windy night and lights were flickering. If you switched on a hallway lamp, the bathroom fan would suddenly switch itself on and spin twice as fast as normal. The TV blew up when the oven was turned on. The fridge compressor had also burned up.
I couldn't figure it out, so I called an electrician friend and he said that I needed to go up on the roof and tighten the neutral clamp at the top of the meter mast.
He said to shut off the main breaker before I grabbed a hold of the bare cable with a wrench to tighten the clamp.
Sure enough, it solved the problem.
What was happening was that one leg of the 220 load center panel would be searching for a neutral pathway because the wind was causing the clamp to loosen, it would then send the current over to the other load centers bus bar leg when something was switched on.
Come to find out there wasn't a ground rod installed on this house.

 

[CoastRange57]

so I called an electrician friend and he said that I needed to go up on the roof and tighten the neutral clamp at the top of the meter mast.
He said to shut off the main breaker before I grabbed a hold of the bare cable with a wrench to tighten the clamp.

Holy sh*t !! If asked what I know about electricity, my answer is don't f with it !!

That is exactly why. When a young man, I grabbed electric fences standing in a river, I pissed on them ( while under the influence), I rolled under a fence and hit a low wire one night, and as a result I do not like electricity. Now I did OK with low voltage after a while and had a limited low voltage license believe it or not. but that heavy sh*t..no way. Too many of you dudes that know that stuff that I can gladly pay to do that.

 

[Mikej]

Don't know squat, BUT...Neighbors tapped into the wire in the attic for a grow light? Don't know what a small set-up in a closet would draw, but...

 

[jbett98]

Originally the rental house had it's ground clamped to a cold water pipe, but someone had replaced the water line from the street water meter with a plastic PVC pipe. That eliminated the house ground, so the main panel relied on the neutral wire from the power pole.

 

[DuneHopper]

Originally the rental house had it's ground clamped to a cold water pipe, but someone had replaced the water line from the street water meter with a plastic PVC pipe. That eliminated the house ground, so the main panel relied on the neutral wire from the power pole.

Awww all comes together, nice thing about electrical work, why a pain to troubleshoot there is always a cause.

 

[DirectDrive]

Originally the rental house had it's ground clamped to a cold water pipe, but someone had replaced the water line from the street water meter with a plastic PVC pipe. That eliminated the house ground, so the main panel relied on the neutral wire from the power pole.

Ooops.
Not a sparky but that's not code.
I can't even begin to get temp power for a jobsite without a ground rod present.
If something bad happened you would be held liable as owner of the property.
You need to drive some bona fide ground rods.

Maybe there's a sparky NWFA member in your area that can help you with this ?

 

[DuneHopper]

Ooops.
Not a sparky but that's not code.
If something bad happened you would be held liable as owner of the property.
You need to drive some bona fide ground rods.
Maybe there's a sparky NWFA member in your area that can help you with this ?

You should fine one at commercial places like Platt and others.

 

[DirectDrive]

You should fine one at commercial places like Platt and others.

There's no problem FINDING one.
The message is, get a pro to make sure everything is safe.

 

[DuneHopper]

There's no problem FINDING one.
The message is, get a pro to make sure everything is safe.

Agreed, I do all my own work... but yep good idea to have it checked.

 

[Stomper]

Ooops.
Not a sparky but that's not code.
I can't even begin to get temp power for a jobsite without a ground rod present.
If something bad happened you would be held liable as owner of the property.
You need to drive some bona fide ground rods.

Maybe there's a sparky NWFA member in your area that can help you with this ?

Actually, current code requires TWO ground rods at least 6' apart OUTSIDE the structure, and any water & gas piping need to be bonded to them as well.

 

[jbett98]

And the ground wire has to be continuous from the load center down to the first rod and on to the second rod. No splicing.

 

[Stomper]

And the ground wire has to be continuous from the load center down to the first rod and on to the second rod. No splicing.

$$$$$$$$

 

[jbett98]

The old days of pulling the meter and doing a bootleg load center upgrade are long gone with the new smart meters.
You pull one today and PGE will be stopping by tomorrow to check out what went on.

 

[ron]

Cooked wire at breaker terminal is likely a loose connection problem. It could be on the
line side, load side of the breaker or even internally. Look at the line side breaker connection
for discoloration signs of overheating. A common problem found on plug on residential panels.
Some brands of residential panels are notorious for line side breaker to bus connection problems.
The 3 amp load is strange? Not a door bell transformer that would be only a fraction of a amp. Look
closely at all connections in the panel. Including branch circuit neutral connections. Two 120
volt circuits may share a neutral. Good luck Need help? Call an IBEW electrician.