Electrical question

[Oregonhunter5]

So I'm having a shop built. The size is 32x86.

I'm going to install the electrical.

Had a thought to avoid the ongoing pain of the inspector. Can I just install very basic setup. Get it signed off. Then come back and add the rest of it after the county is done looking at it?

This way I can avoid him nit picking the tons of options I'm installing.

Ps. I have a buddy that's a journeyman electrican. Like a genius of a dude.
And I've done my share of wiring before.

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[billdeserthills]

What I did on my last shop was leave the electric alone, until the shop was finished. Then I ran a conduit from my house over to the shop and installed electric at that point.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

What I did on my last shop was leave the electric alone, until the shop was finished. Then I ran a conduit from my house over to the shop and installed electric at that point.

What are you saying?

 

[billdeserthills]

What are you saying?

I didn't put the electric into my last shop until I was all done building it,
as I didn't want it examined by any inspectors

 

[11Charlie]

Yes you can if your buddy is good. I did exactly that.

My buddy ran the main power in got it signed off with two plugs and some lights. Then I did what I wanted with his help over phone and evenings.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

I didn't put the electric into my last shop until I was all done building it,
as I didn't want it examined by any inspectors

Ok. But what happens if there's a fire? Will insurance cover it? Can it stop the sale of your house when inspected then and it didn't have a permit for electrical?

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Yes you can if your buddy is good. I did exactly that.

My buddy ran the main power in got it signed off with two plugs and some lights. Then I did what I wanted with his help over phone and evenings.

Cool. Did the inspector seem suspicious when he saw this?
And it sucks that I even have to ask these questions. But it's the government we have.

 

[billdeserthills]

Ok. But what happens if there's a fire? Will insurance cover it? Can it stop the sale of your house when inspected then and it didn't have a permit for electrical?

Mine was built in Arizona, I can't guess what the state you reside in will do to punish you, for failing to follow rules & regulations while building a structure on your own property

 

[HB of CJ]

Things to consider ...

How tall will the ceiling be? The roof? How tall and wide will the big doors be? How thick will the concrete floor be? Level? Will you build in a service pit with stairs? Will the shop be tall enough to let in entire 18 wheelers with a 53 foot long tall trailer?

Plus ... be able to stand on the roof of the trailer if need be? If not to code, then what? Can you insure it? Can you even sell the place?

What about pit lighting, if any? Floor strength? 500 amp 220 three phase AC power? All of this adds tremendously to the cost but might pay for itself if you want to up and move? Aprons? Outside lighting? Inside lighting? On and on it goes. $Expensive$!

Respectfully.

 

[11Charlie]

Cool. Did the inspector seem suspicious when he saw this?
And it sucks that I even have to ask these questions. But it's the government we have.

Not one bit. Came in looked it over, signed it off, said thanks and walked out. I took a lot of pictures before I covered just in case. Figured they can see outlets and switches and even breaker panel if needed.

 

[11Charlie]

I would also think that in Idaho people do that kinda thing all the time. Just my .02

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Not one bit. Came in looked it over, signed it off, said thanks and walked out. I took a lot of pictures before I covered just in case. Figured they can see outlets and switches and even breaker panel if needed.

When you say pics before you covered? Do you mean switch plates? Also did you guys leave the trench open to prove 18 inch depth?

 

[11Charlie]

When you say pics before you covered? Do you mean switch plates? Also did you guys leave the trench open to prove 18 inch depth?

Yes ditch was open and everything was in conduit. When I say cover I mean insulation and sheet rock. The pictures are to show where and how the wiring is ran. I could always open up the breaker panel and take all the switches and plugs out if they needed to see how it was done.

 

[erslll]

Yes you can if your buddy is good. I did exactly that.

My buddy ran the main power in got it signed off with two plugs and some lights. Then I did what I wanted with his help over phone and evenings.

I may or may not know someone who did the exact same thing. I believe one GFI outlet, inside lighting and an outside light over the man door was the requirement. Ditch was left open for the inspector also.

 

[11Charlie]

I may or may not know someone who did the exact same thing. I believe one GFI outlet, inside lighting and an outside light over the man door was the requirement. Ditch was left open for the inspector also.

I mean really that is all you need to clean your guns and park your truck right!

 

[erslll]

Yep!

 

[etrain16]

Ok. But what happens if there's a fire? Will insurance cover it? Can it stop the sale of your house when inspected then and it didn't have a permit for electrical?

That's your biggest liability. In Oregon, you are allowed, by law, as the homeowner, to perform your own electrical work, in your own home - electrician or not. But that doesn't free you from the permit requirement.

Here is what the State of Oregon has to say about it:

Planning to do electrical work on your home Some important reminders:

• You must be both the owner and the occupant of the home to obtain a permit to do the electrical work yourself.
• If you do not own or do not intend to live in the unit, a licensed electrical contractor must do the work.
• A landlord or agent of the landlord may replace an existing garbage disposal, dishwasher, or electric water heater with a similar appliance of 30 amps.

An electrical permit is not required when you:

• Replace broken or damaged electrical outlets, light fixtures, and light switches with a like replacement.
• Replace approved fuses.
• Replace light bulbs and fluorescent tubes.
• Replace an existing garbage disposal, dishwasher, electric water heater, or similar appliance of 30 amps or less.
• Install coaxial cable for cable television (CATV); however, it must be listed as the proper type of insulated wire for the project.
• Replace an existing door bell.
• If you are still not sure if you need a permit, check out PermitsProtect.info; it is a great resource for additional information.

Source: http://www.oregon.gov/bcd/Documents/brochures/2671.pdf

In all other cases, a permit is required. If you don't get one and make changes, and have a fire, the insurance company is likely to do their research and find out if you made un-permitted changes. And if so, I'm pretty certain their policy has language to disallow your claim, in it's entirety. Getting permits is a pain and a cost and it's paying homage to the government, just like getting BGC's. I would just make sure you're aware of what it could cost you down the road to save a little $$ and time now. As an electrician myself, I got my addition fully permitted when we added on to the house - I didn't want to risk it in the long run.

 

[Joe13]

That's your biggest liability. In Oregon, you are allowed, by law, as the homeowner, to perform your own electrical work, in your own home - electrician or not. But that doesn't free you from the permit requirement.

Here is what the State of Oregon has to say about it:

Planning to do electrical work on your home Some important reminders:

• You must be both the owner and the occupant of the home to obtain a permit to do the electrical work yourself.
• If you do not own or do not intend to live in the unit, a licensed electrical contractor must do the work.
• A landlord or agent of the landlord may replace an existing garbage disposal, dishwasher, or electric water heater with a similar appliance of 30 amps.

An electrical permit is not required when you:

• Replace broken or damaged electrical outlets, light fixtures, and light switches with a like replacement.
• Replace approved fuses.
• Replace light bulbs and fluorescent tubes.
• Replace an existing garbage disposal, dishwasher, electric water heater, or similar appliance of 30 amps or less.
• Install coaxial cable for cable television (CATV); however, it must be listed as the proper type of insulated wire for the project.
• Replace an existing door bell.
• If you are still not sure if you need a permit, check out PermitsProtect.info; it is a great resource for additional information.

Source: http://www.oregon.gov/bcd/Documents/brochures/2671.pdf

In all other cases, a permit is required. If you don't get one and make changes, and have a fire, the insurance company is likely to do their research and find out if you made un-permitted changes. And if so, I'm pretty certain their policy has language to disallow your claim, in it's entirety. Getting permits is a pain and a cost and it's paying homage to the government, just like getting BGC's. I would just make sure you're aware of what it could cost you down the road to save a little $$ and time now. As an electrician myself, I got my addition fully permitted when we added on to the house - I didn't want to risk it in the long run.

That's about what I would say.

Will you have a fire? Probably not.

If you have a fire, are you willing to bet your insurance won't find a loophole?

 

[etrain16]

That's about what I would say.

Will you have a fire? Probably not.

If you have a fire, are you willing to bet your insurance won't find a loophole?

We did have a fire, back in 2012. Thankfully it wasn't anything I had done, but rather an old bathroom exhaust fan that failed and started a fire. During the investigation, they did ask a lot of questions about any electrical work in the house - of course the old fan was pretty obvious that it was part of the old part of the home. I'm sure the insurance company would have loved to find a way to deny the claim - but they didn't, and we were covered.

 

[jbett98]

Most licensed electricians won't do non permitted work. Too much on the line for them.