National Court Strikes Down ATF Frame/Receiver Rule

[Yarome]

Not to take the "L"... again... the alphabet just petitioned SCOTUS for a stay on the vacatur order.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23A82/273123/20230727162524236_VanDerStok Stay Application vf.pdf.

No joke... an 80% frame or receiver is just like a bicycle without pedals??

So from here... 1 of 3 things happens.
1. SCOTUS denies the petition and sends it back to the 5th to run it's course. (most likely, IMHO)
2, They stay the vacatur and send it back to the 5th... likely granting that the previous stay for the plaintiffs would be re-estalished.
3. They take up the case themselves like the recent domestic abusers case.

 

[zomie]

Not to take the "L"... again... the alphabet just petitioned SCOTUS for a stay

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23A82/273123/20230727162524236_VanDerStok Stay Application vf.pdf.

No joke... an 80% frame or receiver is just like a bicycle without pedals??

You weren't joking ...

Again, that accords with ordinary usage. Just 5 as a bicycle is still a bicycle even if it is sold without pedals, a frame or receiver is still a frame or receiver even if the buyer must drill a few holes or remove some plastic tabs before attaching other parts of the firearm.

I don't remember having to drill and tap for the pedals when I purchased bike parts in the past or for it to require me to have a milling machine with a knowledge of how to use it. Oh well ... I am very curious to see if the Supreme Court picks this up to make an example. I am guessing it will just be declined.

 

[Yarome]

Oh Gad... did anyone see this one? One of the alphabets arguments against the 5th district ruling is:

"It strains our separation of powers by allowing individual judges to act more like a legislature by decreeing the rights and duties of people nationwide."

Ummm... isn't that what the alphabet was doing... and why the judge simply put a stop to them "straining the separation of powers"?? That is the judicial branches job... the last I heard.

You seriously can't make this chit up....

 

[The Heretic]

Flip it around and it comes closer to the truth:

A bicycle frame (no wheels, no handlebars, no forks) without the bottom bracket or headset drilled, not to mention machined or threaded, with no other parts, is not a bicycle.



The photo above is not a bicycle, it is just the frame with the headset tube and bottom bracket drilled/machined. This is more akin to a stripped receiver/frame of an AR. Take away machining/threading of the head tube and bottom bracket and you basically have the equivalent of a 80% receiver, and it is even less near being a bicycle.

A bicycle without pedals is still a bicycle - indeed, early bicycles did not have pedals; they functioned by the rider pushing the bicycle along with his feet against the ground.

Another analogy:

A car frame, with no wheels, body, axles, engine/motor, nothing but the frame, is not a car - although many car frames have a VIN stamped on them. This also is somewhat akin to a stripped AR receiver - generally it has been drilled and is ready to be assembled. An 80% receiver is more like a couple of frame rails (with cross members) for a truck, stamped into a C shape, but not all the holes drilled/etc. to be assembled.

Enough with frame analogies.

Think of an 80% receiver as a cast iron bare engine block for a car without the bores for pistons/cam/crankshaft being machined. It isn't a car - it needs machining and parts added to it to even run, then to be used in a car, the rest of the car needs to be assembled and the engine placed in the car and connected to the rest of the drivetrain before the car can move an inch under power. It would be silly to license a car engine.

I could go on and on. Saying an 80% frame is like a bicycle without wheels is really stretching the analogy way beyond the breaking point - they are not at all the same.

 

[Yarome]

Flip it around and it comes closer to the truth:

A bicycle frame (no wheels, no handlebars, no forks) without the bottom bracket or headset drilled, not to mention machined or threaded, with no other parts, is not a bicycle.

View attachment 1460600

The photo above is not a bicycle, it is just the frame with the headset tube and bottom bracket drilled/machined. This is more akin to a stripped receiver/frame of an AR. Take away machining/threading of the head tube and bottom bracket and you basically have the equivalent of a 80% receiver, and it is even less near being a bicycle.

A bicycle without pedals is still a bicycle - indeed, early bicycles did not have pedals; they functioned by the rider pushing the bicycle along with his feet against the ground.

Another analogy:

A car frame, with no wheels, body, axles, engine/motor, nothing but the frame, is not a car - although many car frames have a VIN stamped on them. This also is somewhat akin to a stripped AR receiver - generally it has been drilled and is ready to be assembled. An 80% receiver is more like a couple of frame rails (with cross members) for a truck, stamped into a C shape, but not all the holes drilled/etc. to be assembled.

Enough with frame analogies.

Think of an 80% receiver as a cast iron bare engine block for a car without the bores for pistons/cam/crankshaft being machined. It isn't a car - it needs machining and parts added to it to even run, then to be used in a car, the rest of the car needs to be assembled and the engine placed in the car and connected to the rest of the drivetrain before the car can move an inch under power. It would be silly to license a car engine.

I could go on and on. Saying an 80% frame is like a bicycle without wheels is really stretching the analogy way beyond the breaking point - they are not at all the same.

Let me summarize to see if I understand you correctly....

So what you're saying is the greatest legal minds in the nation our tax dollars can buy can't tell the difference between a bicycle frame and an automobile if you shot em in the a**? (I might have added that last part)

Did I get that right?

 

[Provincial]

Let me summarize to see if I understand you correctly....

So what you're saying is the greatest legal minds in the nation our tax dollars can buy can't tell the difference between a bicycle frame and an automobile if you shot em in the a**? (I might have added that last part)

Did I get that right?

Yes, but at times in our Nation's history, the Supreme Court has accepted and adopted this sort of nonsense into its rulings. For instance, the Depression-era ruling that the Commerce Clause grants the Federal Government the right to regulate backyard gardens growing food for personal consumption because otherwise those vegetables consumed might have been grown in another state. Or almost any ruling made during the period when Earl Warren was Chief Justice.

Or the Oregon ruling that begging was not "commercial speech."

 

[The Heretic]

Yes, but at times in our Nation's history, the Supreme Court has accepted and adopted this sort of nonsense into its rulings. For instance, the Depression-era ruling that the Commerce Clause grants the Federal Government the right to regulate backyard gardens growing food for personal consumption because otherwise those vegetables consumed might have been grown in another state. Or almost any ruling made during the period when Earl Warren was Chief Justice.

Or the Oregon ruling that begging was not "commercial speech."

True.

I've said before, that courts, including the SCOTUS, have ruled in favor of almost anything the government wanted on the basis that it was in the interest of the government (and presumably, therefore the people *sigh*) to allow the thing that the government wanted - even though it was/is obviously overreach by the government and infringing on individual rights.

 

[wired]

An M1 carbine receiver is not a machinegun. An absolutely identical except for the markings M2 marking receiver is a machinegun. They make up silly rules and nothings going to change their mind

 

[The Heretic]

Biden administration asks US Supreme Court to block 'ghost gun' ruling

President Joe Biden’s administration on Thursday asked the U.S. Supreme Court to reinstate a regulation aimed at reining in so-called ghost guns, or privately made firearms that are difficult for law enforcement to trace, after it was struck down by a lower court. The administration asked the...

news.yahoo.com

 

[wired]

Biden administration asks US Supreme Court to block 'ghost gun' ruling

President Joe Biden’s administration on Thursday asked the U.S. Supreme Court to reinstate a regulation aimed at reining in so-called ghost guns, or privately made firearms that are difficult for law enforcement to trace, after it was struck down by a lower court. The administration asked the...

news.yahoo.com

That was dumb

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

 

[Yarome]

Biden administration asks US Supreme Court to block 'ghost gun' ruling

President Joe Biden’s administration on Thursday asked the U.S. Supreme Court to reinstate a regulation aimed at reining in so-called ghost guns, or privately made firearms that are difficult for law enforcement to trace, after it was struck down by a lower court. The administration asked the...

news.yahoo.com

Of course they did.....

Does anyone know off the top of their heads which SCOTUS justice is over the 5th district and is reviewing their petition? (I can look it up, but feeling lazy today... )

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

SCOTUS justice is over the 5th district

Alito

 

[The Heretic]

US Supreme Court's Alito temporarily blocks 'ghost gun' ruling

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito on Friday temporarily blocked a lower court's decision to strike down a regulation aimed at reining in privately made firearms known as "ghost guns" that are difficult for law enforcement to trace. The action by Alito, who handles emergency matters...

news.yahoo.com

 

[Yarome]

US Supreme Court's Alito temporarily blocks 'ghost gun' ruling

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito on Friday temporarily blocked a lower court's decision to strike down a regulation aimed at reining in privately made firearms known as "ghost guns" that are difficult for law enforcement to trace. The action by Alito, who handles emergency matters...

news.yahoo.com

Yup. Administratively back in affect until Aug 4th... and FPC has until the 2nd to respond to the gooberments petition.

I'm quite sure brandon telling SCOTUS he wants it reinstated played a part, but I'm hoping Judge Alito is just paying "token compliance" to the WH... seeing how the deadline on the 4th is such a short timeframe... but hope the hammer drops again. Even if it's just to kick it back to the 5th with the partial vacatur still in affect.

We'll find out soon enough.

 

[E4mafia]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1688954327438700547

 

[CamoDeafie]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1688954327438700547

Of course Justices Roberts and the three leftist/Statists. What surprised me is that Justice Barrett joined them and not Justice Kavanaugh.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Of course Justices Roberts and the three leftist/Statists. What surprised me is that Justice Barrett joined them and not Justice Kavanaugh.

I'll wait for the mark smith video on it cuz he often can fill in the blanks and explain the context, fe "it's extremely rare for scotus to ever do...". Just an example not saying that applies here.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I'll wait for the mark smith video on it cuz he often can fill in the blanks and explain the context, fe "it's extremely rare for scotus to ever do...". Just an example not saying that applies here.

There is a "4d chess" possibility there with the potential for granting certiorari and judgment but I don't have that much faith in them.

Edit. The 4D chess possibility is that they rule against the ATF; and also tell States they can't do the same thing as the ATF did.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

There is a "4d chess" possibility there with the potential for granting certiorari and judgment but I don't have that much faith in them.

Fascinating...