Oregon Confused bout protecting property

[Ni4ni]

I've been searching for advice to help convince a couple of friends that they should pursue charges over an incident were they had gotten shot at on private property. Supposedly these two had been on the river looking for rocks or whatever. Come to a section were they felt that they should let private land owner be aware of there presence. Woman knocks, no answer. As she is walking off 2 men began shooting at her and her friend without warning from what was said. The law was contacted, the shooters (from what I can tell by way of word and internet search), were not issued any tickets or was cited for the shooting. P.S. the 2 men was not the owners of the private property at which incident took place as well ..... I honestly feel as though my friends are stupid not to pursue charges, any thoughts on this?

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[1775usmc]

Nope.

 

[Ni4ni]

Nope?

 

[gmerkt]

Nope means, a person cannot use lethal force to protect property under the circumstances described.

Bearing in mind, you are getting this story second hand. There are several circumstances described in Oregon law that permit lethal force to be used, none seem to be extant in the scenario described. Look it up, Google, "using lethal force to protect private property in Oregon." It's hard to imagine if the facts described are true, that law enforcement wouldn't look into it. BUT: The shooters may have told the law they were just firing warning shots in the air or some such story.

One other thing, there is criminal law, and there is civil law. That latter allows the aggrieved to sue for damages. If they can find an attorney who believes in the case and thinks it will pay off.

In most states, it isn't legal to shoot at someone just for trespassing or theft. Hanging horse thieves is long out of fashion. Typically, you are allowed to use lethal force if you feel your life is in danger. In most states there are a few other situations where it may be found justified. But you can't go out and shoot someone who is trying to steal your car.

And, if you are in a confrontation and your assailant suddenly walks away, in most places, once that happens, the law figures you are no longer in danger and you can't pull the trigger. No shooting into suspects fleeing in vehicles. No "warning shots" into their legs as they are running away, either. You may kill the person by accident, then it's murder.

 

[Koda]

I honestly feel as though my friends are stupid not to pursue charges, any thoughts on this?

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Without evidence it wont go anywhere.

 

[Ni4ni]

Thank you for your input, I do appreciate you taking time to reply to my thread. And you are right, my info is one sided for sure. Regardless the circumstances though I felt that the shooters were being reckless at minimum and should be held accountable before they actually injure or kill someone

 

[Ni4ni]

The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Without evidence it wont go anywhere.

Thanks for taking a minute to reply to my thread...This is absolutely true. Or should be.... I'd figure that between the multiple law enforcement agencies that had been involved, should be plenty of proof. I know nothing of the fine details and feel as though the shooters were reckless at minimum and should be held accountable before someone gets injured or worse

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Something to consider here....

As noted...this story is coming to you second hand.
This can make it difficult to get to the "truth" of the matter.
It may be wise to ask yourself what it is that you actually "know" and can prove...?

It is also difficult / damn near impossible to assign motives / reasons why someone does something...
In this case...were the shots fired to "protect property"...or did the shooters see / perceive your friends as a threat of some kind...?
We don't know , 'cause we weren't there and we ain't the shooters.
Not that I agree that it is good to , or that it is legal to shoot someone who is retreating / going away from you.

Also worth considering....
In times of stress , the mind can see and hear what it expects to see and hear...and not what is actually there.

Please understand that I am not saying that this did not happen or that your friends are in the wrong / lying / etc...

Speaking only for myself here...
I would let the matter drop...and avoid that area from now on.
Andy

 

[RVTECH]

and internet search),

Is there a news story on this? If so please post a link.

 

[echo1]

Burden of proof.....
Shooters: "We thought someone was throwing rocks trying to break in while we were house/cabin sitting and were in fear of being assaulted."
That's our story and we're sticking to it.

How does multiple agencies taking a report constitute proof?

.... I'd figure that between the multiple law enforcement agencies that had been involved, should be plenty of proof. I know nothing of the fine details and feel as though the shooters were reckless at minimum and should be held accountable before someone gets injured or worse

The shooters must not be good shots if your friends lived to tell this feeble tale
PAX

 

[RVTECH]

I know nothing of the fine details and feel as though the shooters were reckless at minimum and should be held accountable before someone gets injured or worse

This is no doubt true however something else to consider - what made your friends believe THEY were being shot at? Were bullets zinging past them, hitting the ground? Were the 'shooters' yelling at them at the same time to 'get off my property' - OR was it just coincidence they happened to be on private property, tried to knock on a door, and after leaving just heard some 'random' shots (maybe NOT even at them) but they interpreted it as 'them' being shot at?

Not to pass judgement but in my 'life' in Oregon I have more than a few times encountered people who when hiking/driving in the woods came across people LEGALLY shooting, or heard shots and expressed turgid fear over it.

It's possible SOME people might 'jump to conclusions' over nothing but hearing shots and because of their lack of knowledge or irrationality might believe THEY were being shot at.

I have more than a few times in my life attempted to explain to people (newbees) about shooting in the Nat Forest and to simply move away from it if it bothered them and above all do NOT approach people target shooting unless you are wanting information or have questions but to do so carefully and respectfully.

 

[Koda]

Supposedly these two had been on the river looking for rocks or whatever. Come to a section were they felt that they should let private land owner be aware of there presence. Woman knocks, no answer. As she is walking off 2 men began shooting at her and her friend without warning from what was said.

So when they came upon private property did the go back and drive around and come up the driveway or did they just walk up from the river thru the property straight to the door?

 

[edzz]

Nope.
Sounds like an A.I. question.
If not explain to your friends not to trespass and leave rural people alone.

 

[echo1]

..... I honestly feel as though my friends are stupid not to pursue charges, any thoughts on this?

They were/are for trespassing out in no-man's land. Didn't they see "The Hills Have Eyes"? PAX

 

[RVTECH]

Didn't they see "The Hills Have Eyes"?

Or any of the 'Wrong Turn' series?

 

[Ni4ni]

Something to consider here....

As noted...this story is coming to you second hand.
This can make it difficult to get to the "truth" of the matter.
It may be wise to ask yourself what it is that you actually "know" and can prove...?

It is also difficult / damn near impossible to assign motives / reasons why someone does something...
In this case...were the shots fired to "protect property"...or did the shooters see / perceive your friends as a threat of some kind...?
We don't know , 'cause we weren't there and we ain't the shooters.
Not that I agree that it is good to , or that it is legal to shoot someone who is retreating / going away from you.

Also worth considering....
In times of stress , the mind can see and hear what it expects to see and hear...and not what is actually there.

Please understand that I am not saying that this did not happen or that your friends are in the wrong / lying / etc...

Speaking only for myself here...
I would let the matter drop...and avoid that area from now on.
Andy

I appreciate you takin the time to give your thoughts on this situation. There is more to story than what I've been made aware of I'm sure. what I do know is the two were in no way appearing to be a threat to two grown men with shotguns. And if the shooters would have actually tried to confront them before opening fire they would not have had to waste there ammo.

 

[Ni4ni]

Nope.
Sounds like an A.I. question.
If not explain to your friends not to trespass and leave rural people alone.

Appreciate the input, but they are just as rural and local as it gets. Matter of fact if the shooters in this case wouldn't have been so trigger happy and actually confronted the two they'd a realized that they actually all know each other. I happen know all parties as well.... Purdy small in these parts.

 

[MTpockets]

I apologize in advance for the level of my immaturity....


By chance, were either of the trespassers carrying a large letter "F"?




At least no one was injured.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

what I do know is the two were in no way appearing to be a threat to two grown men with shotguns. And if the shooters would have actually tried to confront them before opening fire they would not have had to waste there ammo.

How do you know this...?

I am not asking the above to be argumentative....
I am asking the above , to try and have you consider something .

How can you state something as a fact : "...the two were in no way appearing to be a threat..."
How do you know / can prove this...?
You weren't there....and if you were there...it would still be your perception of the events...not those of the shooters.

How can say what would have happened if....
"...the shooters would have actually tried to confront them before opening fire they would not have had to waste there ammo."
Again...you know this how...?
You were not one of the shooters...so how can you what would have happened if they ( the shooters ) "confronted " your friends...?

And again...
I am not trying to be or sound like a male appendage here...
I am just asking for you to take a moment...and ask yourself....how can you know or prove this to be true....?

Andy

 

[Ni4ni]

Is there a news story on this? If so please post a link.

There is a brief paragraph in the local paper. I'll see bout rounding it up and getting a pic of it posted