Concealed is concealed, open carry is not

[Koda]

Open carry is one of those things where the more people that do it will equally make it more likely to become prohibited.

 

[trevi]

Absolutely ZERO situational awareness exhibited by this woman... hands full, talking on phone, cover garment had hiked up exposing what should have been a concealed firearm. She went 0 for 3...

It seems she was trying for situational awareness but failed miserably by the reasons you listed. As you can see her body moving L and R and looking at the perp but what good is all that if hands are full and and you're on the phone? I use a re-usable shopping bag and do not talk on phones in public but I also do not OC.

I agree, terrible, even for a copper.

 

[sobo]

Much better view than the video I posted.

It did look like she had maybe had her hoodie partly covering the gun, and therefore maybe was not aware it was uncovered - as someone else mentioned. Also in that view you can see what looks like collaboration with the guy who left first, and then them leaving in the car.

What it looked like to me was that she may have also tried to get something else after the gun was taken - maybe a second gun? Or was she trying to get the gun that had been taken, being unaware that the criminal had already taken it? Not sure what the struggle was all about if he already had the gun?

Looked to me like she was reaching for the gun that had just been grabbed. She might have been reacting to the thief's assault, and she didn't yet realize that he had already boosted her gun.

 

[sobo]

It seems she was trying for situational awareness but failed miserably by the reasons you listed. As you can see her body moving L and R and looking at the perp but what good is all that if hands are full and and you're on the phone? I use a re-usable shopping bag and do not talk on phones in public but I also do not OC.

I agree, terrible, even for a copper.

I agree, she was (at first) at least marginally aware that she was being "assessed" as a potential mark, as evidenced by her attempts at keeping the thug inside her window of vision. Then she tries to attain a position where she can remain facing the person of interest. But then she dropped all alertness and turned her back on what she had just an instant before deemed a possible threat. And her arms full, being on the phone, and her purse flopping around in the crook of her arm didn't help matters any.

My (now) ex-wife committed the same lapse of judgement while we were in Saigon 20 years ago. She was wearing one of those Steve Reeves travel wallets... the ones with a velcro-closure pouch on a lanyard that you wear around your neck. I carry my passport in one of my front cargo pockets with a velcro closure. I mentioned to her that she shouldn't wear the wallet out in the open like that, that it could get stolen, and to put it in her pocket or give it to me to carry in another secure pocket of my pants. She, a former Redmond and Bothell, Washington LEO, told me that there was nothing to worry about. She said she could see whoever was coming toward her and that her "spidey sense" would clue her in and she could then protect the wallet before anything bad happened. I suggested that her "spidey sense" might be out of tune, since she hadn't worked as a LEO in over 5 years at this point...

Undeterred, she didn't put it away, and we approached a street corner. I stepped out into the crosswalk to cross the street, but she stopped at the curb while I kept walking and reached the other side. I turned around just a duo of "motorcycle bandits" sped by her, and I watched in horror as the passenger reached out and grabbed the lanyard of her wallet. Luckily, she had placed a small knot in the lanyard which apparently came unknotted with the stretch of the lanyard as the would-be thieves accelerated away. The lanyard didn't snap, but the wallet snapped out of the thief's hand, likely due to the speed at which they rode by her and the undoing of the knot in the lanyard. She luckily retained her wallet AND PASSPORT, and promptly handed me her wallet for me to carry in my pocket.

I didn't say "I told you so", since at that point there would have been nothing served by doing so. I need to mention that our purpose of being in Saigon at this juncture was to adopt our first child, a baby boy who we named Nicholas, whom we had not yet been given possession of by the governmental authorities. Had she lost that passport, we would have had to leave Vietnam (which would have been an ordeal in itself without a passport) without Nicholas. We would have lost our son, who would then either likely never be adopted or, less likely, would have been adopted by someone else.

I still see that whole scary scenario play out in slo-mo in my dreams sometimes... watching my wife standing on the opposite curb, the red scooter coming into view from the right, the guy on the back of the scooter reaching his hand out and grabbing the lanyard, the scooter speeding away to the left as my wife gets pulled into the street, the lanyard stretching to its limit, then snapping back out of his grasp as the bandits disappear into traffic, reliving what could have been such a horrible outcome. It was really close...

 

[WillametteWill]

You mean tucking your gun in the back of your yoga pants isn't retention?

Now if I was to carry with a gun tucked into the back of my Lululemons that would be the ultimate in retention. Even desperate thieves would be so repulsed there would be no chance of them touching anything near the gun.

(No photos pending)

 

[The Heretic]

Now if I was to carry with a gun tucked into the back of my Lululemons that would be the ultimate in retention. Even desperate thieves would be so repulsed there would be no chance of them touching anything near the gun.

(No photos pending)

I seem to recall something about a handgun found in the posterior "crack" of some teen recently?

 

[1775usmc]

Now if I was to carry with a gun tucked into the back of my Lululemons that would be the ultimate in retention. Even desperate thieves would be so repulsed there would be no chance of them touching anything near the gun.

(No photos pending)

When I do it, I clinch the slide between my a$$ cheeks. Although if the front sight post catches your booty hole you're in for a painful ride. I know from experience…. Haha.

 

[American123]

I think blanket statements are dumb.

My opinion is that OC can be dumb in certain circumstances, but a perfectly reasonable choice in others. I'll leave it to the individual to decide that those circumstances are.

You missed a great opportunity for irony:

"Blanket statements are dumb."

 

[American123]

This equally served as a basic example of the significant difference in physical contests between average men and women. He seemed about average build, he took her down and overpowered her almost effortlessly.

 

[Catfishmoon]

With respect, then what would you suggest?

I think you are rose-colored-glasses wrong on the emphasized point above. I would agree that in a safe and just world, we should not have to take extra precautions to preserve our lives and possessions. However, the truth of the matter is that we do not live in a safe and just world. Therefore, the only alternative, short of incarcerating (or even executing) every lawbreaking malcontent, is to take sufficient precautions to safeguard ourselves and our possessions.

Do you lock your front door at night?

It appears that, perhaps I have done a poor job of making my point clear... It's not that I believe in some sort of utopian "defund the police" society, I simply hate thieves (more than most people in this thread it seems)...
In no way, shape, or form am I going to excuse (or lessen) the actions of the thief in this video by blaming the victim... I am in favor of capturing the thief and cutting off one of his hands...
I believe our society has fallen far short by not adequately punishing criminals and laying the cause of the criminal activity on the actions of the innocent victims...
There are people who blame the rape victim for being raped, because of the attire she was wearing and they excuse or discount the actions of the rapist at the same time. It appears to me that many of the comments in this thread take that type of approach "blame the victim".
I do not agree with the viewpoint that the thief is only partially responsible for his actions and the victim "is bringing upon themselves".
---k criminals....

.

 

[Koda]

Is pointing out the flaws in someone's strategy or tactics blaming them for being a victim?

 

[1775usmc]

Is pointing out the flaws in someone's strategy or tactics blaming them for being a victim?

No it's not. Unless you have a victim mentality.

 

[Catfishmoon]

Is pointing out the flaws in someone's strategy or tactics blaming them for being a victim?

In my opinion, many comments have excused the behavior of the thief and laid the blame on the victim. I think that type of soft on crime mentality hurts our society and has aggravated the problems with crime we have today....
I don't agree with those who suggest the person deserves to a be a victim because they didn't provided a greater deterant...
Sorry, but I am tired of people making excuses for criminal actions by blaming something or someone else.

 

[1775usmc]

In my opinion, many comments have excused the behavior of the thief and laid the blame on the victim. I think that type of soft on crime mentality hurts our society and has aggravated the problems with crime we have today....
I don't agree with those who suggest the person deserves to a be a victim because they didn't provided a greater deterant...
Sorry, but I am tired of people making excuses for criminal actions by blaming something or someone else.

Oh I would have much rather her shoot the dude when he attempted to take the firearm. Unfortunately she didn't have the chance because her situational awareness/gear/and carry position were beyond piss poor and she paid the price. She's lucky all he did was take the gun and run.

Side note - I'm tired of people who become victims due to their own incompetence and then turn to blame others.

 

[The Heretic]

Should I be able to leave my car and house unlocked without fear of unauthorized entry?

Yes.

Do I do that?

Not if I remember to lock them up.

Where I live, out in the boonies on a private road off a gravel backroad that has almost no traffic, it isn't really an issue, but I lock everything up anyway.

Sometimes I forget to lockup the shop or my vehicles - in ten years nothing has happened - primarily because of extremely low population density and somewhat remote location. If I do forget, I am stupid & lazy and I shouldn't do that - but if someone comes and steals something, they are still a thief and bad person and should be punished to the full extent of the law.

I can partially blame myself if I do something stupid, but the real blame is on bad people doing bad things. There is a difference.

 

[WillametteWill]

This equally served as a basic example of the significant difference in physical contests between average men and women. He seemed about average build, he took her down and overpowered her almost effortlessly.

I think your valid point extends well beyond gender into people not being prepared for violence to be rained down upon them. Even though she was an officer (and even if she was a he) humans are often not prepared when they encounter unexpected violence. Their normalcy bias says, "No, this isn't supposed to be happening." You could call it Condition White.

In Condition Yellow you are better prepared for it to hit the fan. If you are in a convenience / liquor store with people around, you need to be acutely aware of your surroundings. I've seen plenty of videos of unprepared people of all genders and sizes, and been on calls with the same, with folks who basically curl up into a ball because, "This can't be happening!"

People are like tea bags; you don't know how strong they are until you put them in hot water. That includes the person behind this keyboard. Every stressful event is unique. The better you are mentally, physically and tactically prepared the better. But there are no absolutes.

 

[sobo]

It appears that, perhaps I have done a poor job of making my point clear... It's not that I believe in some sort of utopian "defund the police" society, I simply hate thieves (more than most people in this thread it seems)...

Doubtful... The three most despicable creatures in the world to me are liars, thieves, and cheats. They should all be burned at the stake.

In no way, shape, or form am I going to excuse (or lessen) the actions of the thief in this video by blaming the victim... I am in favor of capturing the thief and cutting off one of his hands...

I almost wrote those very words in my initial reply. Having spent some time in the KSA (Thuwal on the Red Sea, near Jeddah, in particular) and witnessing some Saudi jurisprudence, I would concur that such forms of punishment have their merits.

I believe our society has fallen far short by not adequately punishing criminals and laying the cause of the criminal activity on the actions of the innocent victims...

Complete concurrence from me.

There are people who blame the rape victim for being raped, because of the attire she was wearing and they excuse or discount the actions of the rapist at the same time. It appears to me that many of the comments in this thread take that type of approach "blame the victim".
I do not agree with the viewpoint that the thief is only partially responsible for his actions and the victim "is bringing upon themselves".

I agree. However, the victim really does need to up her SA if she's going to carrying a firearm in that manner.

---k criminals....

Could not agree more...

 

[sobo]

Side note - I'm tired of people who become victims due to their own incompetence and then turn to blame others.

That right there...

 

[Xaevian]

That right there...

Well, honestly, if incompetence was a crime, we'd all be in jail.

 

[American123]

I think your valid point extends well beyond gender into people not being prepared for violence to be rained down upon them. Even though she was an officer (and even if she was a he) humans are often not prepared when they encounter unexpected violence. Their normalcy bias says, "No, this isn't supposed to be happening." You could call it Condition White.

In Condition Yellow you are better prepared for it to hit the fan. If you are in a convenience / liquor store with people around, you need to be acutely aware of your surroundings. I've seen plenty of videos of unprepared people of all genders and sizes, and been on calls with the same, with folks who basically curl up into a ball because, "This can't be happening!"

People are like tea bags; you don't know how strong they are until you put them in hot water. That includes the person behind this keyboard. Every stressful event is unique. The better you are mentally, physically and tactically prepared the better. But there are no absolutes.

Very true - sudden explosive violence can overcome a lot of people who are not mentally prepared to react in kind.

In order to stop evil you have to be willing to act in a similar violent way, just under control.