Common Ground? Avoiding Firearm Theft from Vehicles

[salmon creek gary]

This article - at first read - seems to highlight some common ground between the anti's and responsible firearm owners. I did find some things debatable, but lots of it mirrors my own thoughts. How about yours?

Read More

 

[Hueco]

Just skimmed the article but will state that there is no such thing as "safe storage" in an unoccupied vehicle. Leaving a gun in a car should be illegal.

That being said, all reasons for leaving a gun in a car should be void as well. Gun free zones? Ha. Either get rid of them or start offering a coat check for them.

 

[msgriff]

The article was written by a NYT's neo-liberal, and based on "research" from Everytown for Gun Safety, one of the most anti-gun organizations there is. More attacks by the uber-leftists targeting law abiding citizens while coddling murderers, rapists, and thieves. How about harsh mandatory minimum sentences for those convicted of violent crimes while using firearms as a better solution?

 

[Member 34319]

If only it were a crime to break in and steal someone else's property.

I love how the topic of that, and crime, never ever gets brought up as the real problem.

The criminals in cities where guns are harder to obtain, wait for it, still have guns. They haven't stopped breaking into cars though. Or stealing. Or crime.

As per usual, Democratic ideology is infecting another once conservative state.

 

[Member 53328]

Individuals who leave firearms in unoccupied/out of sight vehicles are stupid.







That's all I have to say. Tactfully that is…..

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Leaving anything of value in your vehicle is bad idea...
Mostly 'cause criminals break into vehicles.

With that said..
Should it be illegal to leave a firearm in a vehicle...Nope.
My vehicle is my property ...I should be free to leave whatever else is my property in it.*
Breaking into vehicles is against the law....How 'bout going after criminals and not after those who didn't commit a crime.
Andy


*Again....not saying that leaving a firearm or anything else of value in a vehicle is wise.

 

[Member 53328]

This goes hand in hand with all those "cool" 2A bumper stickers.

 

[Mikej]

It should be illegal to leave any children under16 in a car. Double the penalty if the keys are left too.

 

[Hueco]

If only it were a crime to break in and steal someone else's property.

I love how the topic of that, and crime, never ever gets brought up as the real problem.

The criminals in cities where guns are harder to obtain, wait for it, still have guns. They haven't stopped breaking into cars though. Or stealing. Or crime.

As per usual, Democratic ideology is infecting another once conservative state.

It's a question of priorities for me. If such an event were to be the impetus for either stiffening criminal penalties for theft or removing gun free zones (and a primary reason people leave pews in vehicles) - I'm voting for the latter. (Yea yea I know, false dichotomy).

 

[TTSX]

There are definitely times when a gun in an unoccupied vehicle happens. Example: you're on a long drive for a hunting trip and you stop to get a bite to eat. Your rifle(s) are likely in an unoccupied vehicle. Same thing for stopping at a gas station and getting a snack or using the restroom. That's a big reason why I don't think it should be illegal to do so. There are also many times I think it would be foolish to leave a gun in an unoccupied vehicle, usually out of laziness however, again, it should not be illegal

 

[Nosferatu]

It should be illegal to leave any children under16 in a car. Double the penalty if the keys are left too.

My mom used to leave us (3 brats) on the car while she went grocery shopping all the time. Now that I'm an adult and see how kids behave in the grocery store, I see why.

Part of me is surprised we weren't cuffed and gagged as well.

 

[Mikej]

My mom used to leave us (3 brats) on the car while she went grocery shopping all the time. Now that I'm an adult and see how kids behave in the grocery store, I see why.

Part of me is surprised we weren't cuffed and gagged as well.

On second thought, the kids I see now days are probably so engrossed with their devices they wouldn't relate to the keys being in the ignition, and engine RUNNIG!!

 

[Nosferatu]

There are definitely times when a gun in an unoccupied vehicle happens. Example: you're on a long drive for a hunting trip and you stop to get a bite to eat. Your rifle(s) are likely in an unoccupied vehicle. Same thing for stopping at a gas station and getting a snack or using the restroom. That's a big reason why I don't think it should be illegal to do so. There are also many times I think it would be foolish to leave a gun in an unoccupied vehicle, usually out of laziness however, again, it should not be illegal

Yep. It blows my mind how many gun owners scream for more gun control.

While I keep things locked up and out of sight as much as possible, there is no way in hell the gun owner should be held accountable for some jackwad breaking into his vehicle and stealing bubblegum. This is no different than the idiotic gun storage laws in homes, etc. While I agree it's a good idea, getting the government involved is never the answer.

 

[Nosferatu]

On second thought, the kids I see now days are probably so engrossed with their devices they wouldn't relate to the keys being in the ignition, and engine RUNNIG!!

While I know the car was never left running (my parents were cheapskates, there's no way they were wasting fuel on our comfort), I doubt the keys were ever left in our possession. This was in the day of crank windows, so if we needed air, we just had to roll a window down, no power required. Plus, I can't imagine that car would be in the same place she left if if we were given the keys! Air conditioning? Pfft...we were lucky to be allowed to suck on the fabulous air provided by the great state of California!

 

[Mikej]

While I know the car was never left running (my parents were cheapskates, there's no way they were wasting fuel on our comfort), I doubt the keys were ever left in our possession. This was in the day of crank windows, so if we needed air, we just had to roll a window down, no power required. Air conditioning? Pfft...we were lucky to be allowed to suck on the fabulous air provided by the great state of California!

We would have known better too.

 

[Catfishmoon]

I also disagree with those who suggest it should be a crime to leave a firearm in an unattended vehicle.
It should be avoided if possible, but frequently it is the lesser of a choice that must be made. If a person who conceal carries visits some place like a federal building, do you suggest the better choice is to have left the gun at home all day?
Others made a good point about it basically being unavoidable for someone while on a hunting trip if they eat at a cafe, go into a grocery store, use a bathroom etc.

 

[Member 34319]

My basis for being against this is it is a "soft on crime" way of solving the issue.

IE they are not going after the real criminals by making it illegal to have a gun in the car.

The criminals will just start breaking into cop cars. That's what they used to do. Now they find it easier to just break into every car in a street. 1/10 has a gun in it that's a score for them. They also stole everything else in the other 9/10 cars they hit. Then they go and meet their handler, he gives them fixed rates for the gear they stole. Guns get top dollar usually. It's a game of numbers to them. They have to hit X amount of cars to get X amount of money being a criminal for the day.

But wait we were talking about guns, right…

So do we make it illegal to also have luggage in your car? Since thieves are luggage and hit those cars almost ALWAYS.

That way, we will have less car break in theft!

 

[bradsteen]

I think leaving a firearm unsecured and unattended in a vehicle is foolish. While leaving it secured in a vehicle is still generally not advisable, if someone is going to leave a gun in their car it's better for it to be locked up than not.
All that being said, I don't think any law requiring secure storage will do anything to keep people from leaving guns unsecured in cars, and if a proposed legislation isn't going to effect the desired change in behavior, I don't believe it should become law.

If we are trying to solve "the problem" (theft of guns from cars), we need to look at contributing factors, including:

1. Advertising Pro 2A position via stickers on vehicles increases likelihood that vehicle will be targeted by thieves.
2. Thieves are organized / experienced enough to know how to pick vehicles most likely to have firearms in them.
3. Many secure storage options for vehicles don't enable quick access to the firearm in case of emergency.
4. Many gun owners are new to firearms (within the last few years) and lack training on how to most effectively carry or store them in ready condition.

Item 1 is protected speech under 1A, but could be addressed in some manner by public information campaigns focused on helping community members improve their personal security. Some people just don't think about the fact that they are advertising their ownership and thereby making themselves a bigger target. No additional laws would be of benefit here though.

Item 2 demonstrates that thieves learn and refine their craft. The only way to mitigate this issue is to make the punishment of firearm theft more severe to discourage that activity, such as making theft of a firearm a felony with a mandatory sentence of (X) years. Further increases in penalty should also be added for persons already prohibited from possessing firearms to go after career criminals. For example, if the thief was previously convicted of crimes involving firearms, add another mandatory (X) years on top of the theft sentence. Don't know if it would have a major impact on gun related theft and recidivism, but laws targeting the perpetrator are more likely to be effective than laws targeting their victims.

Item 3 I see as an opportunity for the firearms industry to partner with the vehicle manufacturing and automotive accessory industries to develop solutions that will enable people to more effectively secure their weapons in vehicles while retaining the ability to access the weapon quickly when necessary. Again, laws won't do much to help here.

item 4 could be addressed by making training on how to properly secure weapons in a vehicle available to the public at no cost (i.e. videos). While this is something the state could probably throw together, the training would be more effective if created in partnership with experts in the industry. This way important topics like the increased risk of negligent discharge when transitioning the gun from holster to secure storage can be addressed. Yet again, additional laws won't be of much use; public information campaigns are much more likely to succeed in changing behavior.

Edited to include:

Great points also made r.e. the need for people to occasionally store a firearm in a vehicle, i.e. entering a gun free zone. If places exist where we cannot take guns, we must have the ability to store them in our vehicle if necessary.

 

[salmon creek gary]

My thoughts: I won't ever advertise that I have a firearm in my vehicle, so it is not a rolling billboard for any brand of firearm or 2A (gray man does not invite attention from thieves & crazies). Actually, I go beyond that, nixing signs advertising any products or causes. Even auto dealer decals, license brackets, and paper "plates" all go away real fast (no dealer ever gave me such a good deal that I want to advertise for them).

I'm totally against legislation making locked security containers mandatory for firearms in vehicles. A believer in "adulting", I make my own security decisions, so it was my own choice to mount a gun bunker in our truck. Well-concealed, it is only used when my wife isn't with me (she has her CPL and takes control of my EDC on the rare occasions when I need to enter some legally "prohibited" place). Admittedly, much of what I do now is a carry-over from nearly 14 years of living with a paranoid psychotic.

Although it is arguably true that fewer firearms stored in vehicles means fewer stolen firearms, that decision still does not belong to elected control freaks. Recommended, yes; mandatory, no. Adult gun owners are responsible enough to decide for themselves whether or not circumstances require a locked storage container in their vehicle. Making it mandatory (with penalties for not doing so) is just "punishing the victim". Theft of a firearm from a locked vehicle is all on the criminal and deterring/punishing that thief should be the focus of laws.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

While not really useful for EDC...

I can say that the Decked Drawers Pickup bed Storage System...works very nicely for hauling and securing long guns and the like.
Andy