College abroad

[Provincial]

My first job was in a machine shop repairing logging and sawmill equipment, but also anything thing that came in the door. That is when I decided that any engineer should have to spend five years repairing what he was going to be designing before he could be turned loose.

 

[dplev4]

Both my children took a year or semester abroad. They are going to be 40 and 38 this year, respectively, so I'm not sure how relevant their experience is now. That said both found gainful employment quickly after graduation, with my son getting a well paying job, in part because of language skills learned abroad, in 2009 when only 1 out of 10 graduates where getting hired.

Both earn six figures, are married with kids and own their own homes. Neither retains any student debt either. Their success is due to their own work ethic but they would tell you their study abroad was worthwhile and aided their resumes.

 

[P7M13]

I love hearing @P7M13 saying his daughter has studied abroad and has experienced what I hope my niece can. I am very willing to help. A huge part is fear, which is a shame.

I can't hate because I didn't take advantage of opportunities either until much later. A lot of parents can't fathom their child on the other side of the planet, but from what I understand, it can be much cheaper than studying locally with careful planning, But that includes a lot of "ifs".

Not my daughter. She asked for a year to study abroad in France - I said "sure, what's the plan?" She never pursued it, and is now started on a track to get her MA in philosophy. To think, she started out in a physical therapist program. I told her, after you get your MA, then would be the time to go to France and get your PhD. She's fluent in Français.

 

[sobo]

Not my daughter. She asked for a year to study abroad in France - I said "sure, what's the plan?" She never pursued it, and is now started on a track to get her MA in philosophy. To think, she started out in a physical therapist program. I told her, after you get your MA, then would be the time to go to France and get your PhD. She's fluent in Français.

I could be wrong, but I think @nwslopoke meant my daughter...

 

[foxmeadow]

I'm going to second the recommendation to study in China.

A great way to experience a shockingly different approach to education, society, expectations, etc.

They absolutely don't partake in the liberal B's we do. Only focus on merit (and money).

My wife said absolutely not to our son going to China. We have an apartment he could live in, but my wife thinks it's too difficult and my son too unprepared. Sounds like a win to me

He's going to get an engineering degree, then we're sending him to a trade school. I think being a tradie is a safer bet, but having both a degree and learn an actual trade? Should give him an advantage....
I sure do wish the engineers I work with had practical experience

After a career in construction I have always thought that newly spawned engineers should have to work in the trades for a year or two before they get their license.
I have heard that in parts of Europe this is so.

 

[nwslopoke]

I could be wrong, but I think @nwslopoke meant my daughter...

Yes. Congrats on your/her experience. I was using my phone and looked at the wrong post.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

After a career in construction I have always thought that newly spawned engineers should have to work in the trades for a year or two before they get their license.
I have heard that in parts of Europe this is so.

Engineers will at least listen to reason if you can properly articulate your argument. Architects, on the other hand,....

 

[sobo]

My first job was in a machine shop repairing logging and sawmill equipment, but also anything thing that came in the door. That is when I decided that any engineer should have to spend five years repairing what he was going to be designing before he could be turned loose.

After a career in construction I have always thought that newly spawned engineers should have to work in the trades for a year or two before they get their license.
I have heard that in parts of Europe this is so.

Story time...

While I am a civil engineer that has never worked in "The Trades", as they are typically defined, I did start my career as a board draftsman designing structural steel structures from engineers' sketches. The degreed engineers gave me disgustingly shiitty sketches telling me what size of beam/column they wanted to use, what size anchor bolts, etc. But it was up to me to read and understand the American Institute of Steel Construction's Manual of Steel Construction (known then simply as the AISC Manual) to figure out bolt hole size/spacing/edge distance, anchor bolt spacing so a spud wrench could actually be placed on the nut and not interfere with the column/beam surface so the nut could be tightened, weld symbols, beam flange coping, etc. so the damned stuff could actually be manufactured in a steel fab shop.

Then I changed jobs, moving from the drafting board to a steel fab shop (of all places), where I drew detailed steel fabrication drawings, performed estimates/quantity take-offs for the various types of steel that would be needed for a project, to ultimately assisting the shop foreman in actually running the fabrication shop. I supervised the cutters, breakers, and sandblasting folks, ordered steel, made out the fabrication schedule, went to jobsites to troubleshoot our steel that wasn't fitting up properly, etc. It wasn't until I was told that I wasn't going to be getting a raise one year because my supervisor, the actual shop foreman, had a college degree and if I got a raise, then they would have to give him a bigger one because he had a degree, that told me I needed to go back to school if I wanted to move any further.

So that's when I went back to school. In my summers, I worked on a construction staking crew every summer through my entire degree. Started out as a hub pounder (I know which thread that's going to end up in ) and worked my way up to party chief the summer before my graduation. Upon graduation, that same construction company offered me a permanent job as their Party Crew and head of the Survey Department. I eschewed, politely informing them that while I appreciated the years of experience they gave me on the staking crew, I did not go to school to be a surveyor. So I moved back out West to Washington to look for a job to start my second career...

Took a job as a fresh engineering grad at a consulting engineering firm, and have been a civil engineering consultant and project manager (at a few firms) ever since. The very best thing about my first job out of school was that this first firm of mine had a practice of having their young engineers that designed their early projects go into the field as the Project Inspector when those projects went to construction. I thought I had done fantastic designs with impeccable clarity while I was in the office. But I cannot tell you how embarrassing it can be when a grizzled old contractor comes up to you and says, "Who's the idiot engineer that designed this f***in' thing this way? It can't be built like this! Blah blah blah! Rant rant rant..."

Needless to say, I learned a lot about "The Trades" in those early conversations with contractors and builders, and my designs improved markedly year after year. It got to a point after about 12-13 years of this business that the contractors never even deigned to debate my designs or argue with my specifications. I had honed those documents over time, project lesson after project lesson, to become ironclad against change orders. Those early embarrassing lessons served me well for the past 37 years as a civil engineer in the consulting business. And I think that's what @Provincial and @foxmeadow meant when they said that engineers should spend some time in The Trades before they go off all half-cocked...

 

[sobo]

Engineers will at least listen to reason if you can properly articulate your argument. Architects, on the other hand,....

They just choose the colors...

(old joke from engineering school)

 

[Provincial]

Architects have a vision.
Engineers try to make the vision possible.
Contractors try to erect the vision.
Construction workers make it happen.
Maintenance workers deal with the result.

 

[foxmeadow]

Engineers will at least listen to reason if you can properly articulate your argument. Architects, on the other hand,....

Sorry, you're right. Only a few engineers, but most architects