College abroad

[nwslopoke]

Did any of you or your children study abroad? I have a young family member who will graduate next year. I could see a case for her best chance for success is getting far away. Not a physical danger but a continuous cycle of loser thought.

I'm a vet but don't recommend the military to anyone until politicians figure things out. Local California colleges would make things worse IMO. I think the shock of real life with your own perspective would be an honest shock to the system and break the cycle.

My guess is those that went had a good experience but I don't know that to be true. What countries were the easiest or best overall?

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[NeoBlackdog]

until politicians figure things out

So basically.... Never?
In full disclosure, I don't have any kids, so take it for what it's worth but I don't know of a country on Earth that I'd like to have a child educated in other than right here. Have you considered a school in a more conservative state? Maybe somewhere like Hillsdale College?

 

[Nosferatu]

No kids here either but a trade school is where I'd point them before any 4-year college, anywhere.

That said, I've interviewed a few degreed individuals from the Scandinavian countries that really seem to have their heads and asses wired together in a way UK and US graduates don't.

 

[dangerranger60]

Did any of you or your children study abroad? I have a young family member who will graduate next year. I could see a case for her best chance for success is getting far away. Not a physical danger but a continuous cycle of loser thought.

I'm a vet but don't recommend the military to anyone until politicians figure things out. Local California colleges would make things worse IMO. I think the shock of real life with your own perspective would be an honest shock to the system and break the cycle.

My guess is those that went had a good experience but I don't know that to be true. What countries were the easiest or best overall?

If it were me I would be looking at collages in conservative areas. if in CA that would be places like Fresno State, Collage of the Siskiyou, etc... if out of state look at some of the big collages in Southern states.
Some things that may help are looking at news of professor's acting out and then what did the collage do about it. Conservative collages tend to not renew a contract for those that make news for their personal views. DR

 

[nwslopoke]

Thanks for the responses so far. One reason I like the idea of looking outside of the US is the the fact a young person has the opportunity to see for themselves everything they've been told so far has been tainted. Yes somethings are true but a lot is only partially true.

Especially in California, the youth are indoctrinated, conservatives be racist. The south is racist. I personally don't like the self segregation in some US colleges.

The person in question is a very bright energetic girl who is unfortunately being raised in victimhood. They've branched away from their left leaning family because they're not left enough. Also, her younger brother is into football and most the energy is focused on him. As I travel I come across students. The 3 times I have been to one hotel in Germany, they always had a tour bus full of students from Mexico come through. Very nice and polite brief encounters with them.

Whether it's Mexico, Africa, India, students from all over go abroad. I was talking to one couple and finally asked what state they were from. She said Brazil. Her English was perfect and she said they were students.

Not that I believe the US is trash. I see opportunities some of our kids miss out on and since there is a very broad group of people on this site, I didn't think it was outrageous that a few may have studied abroad.

 

[jcg5352]

I think if there's an opportunity to go abroad during college, absolutely do it. I've yet to meet someone who didn't enjoy/at minimum appreciate the experience.

(begin tangential rant/) But if there isn't an opportunity or it isn't financially feasible, at a minimum go to a college in a different environment and ideally far away from "home". What I mean by that is if they grew up in white suburbia/rural area, go to a diverse/public university IN a big city. Not next to, not nearby, IN. I think one of the most destructive things in our country is that a large majority of people never leave the ~50mi circle of where they grew up or leave for college and immediately go back after (obviously excluding those who don't have the means). Being from a suburb of the biggest city in a great plains state, I know people who stopped developing as people after high school because they stayed in state for college and went back to that city after.

The base value of college should be that it challenges your preexisting beliefs/values and increases your ability to understand the world. Just like learning a foreign language, immersion in an environment that can do that is one of the best way to make that happen. Learning how to exist independently is a very useful side effect of actually going away to college, especially the further from "home/family" they go. Personally, college was a mess for me because untreated childhood depression tends to make things a real nuisance. But the best year of being challenged and learning was a year that I went to a urban university (6hrs from where I grew up and no family safety net) that bordered parts of that city that white people from there are (unnecessarily) scared of. Culture from the people who lived there and classroom from some fantastic educators.

As it pertains on what to study, if I were to do it over either: study something that has an objective path to future financial stability (getting tougher to assess than it was in 2010s) OR study something you enjoy learning about with full commitment. My degree is literally a bachelors of general studies. I have never had an employer ask me about it, let alone to verify it. (/end rant)

 

[jcg5352]

So basically.... Never?
In full disclosure, I don't have any kids, so take it for what it's worth but I don't know of a country on Earth that I'd like to have a child educated in other than right here. Have you considered a school in a more conservative state? Maybe somewhere like Prager University or Hillsdale College?

Not trying to be a jerk, but Prager "University" is not an actual academic institution. Depending on your view point, it is a media organization at best and propaganda at worst. YMMV. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PragerU)

 

[NeoBlackdog]

Not trying to be a jerk, but Prager "University" is not an actual academic institution. Depending on your view point, it is a media organization at best and propaganda at worst. YMMV. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PragerU)

Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[sobo]

Did any of you or your children study abroad? I have a young family member who will graduate next year. I could see a case for her best chance for success is getting far away.

My guess is those that went had a good experience but I don't know that to be true. What countries were the easiest or best overall?

My son decided to do Running Start and then spent his final 2½ years stateside at University of Tampa. The Boy did all of his higher ed in the USA. He loved it, and we encouraged him (as well as our younger daughter) to go to school far away from us 'rents, so as to figure stuff out mostly on their own, as we both did in our youth. But he was not interested in studying abroad, even when we offered it.

As an aside, he just signed a lease for an apartment in Brooklyn, and will be moving there at the end of this month. He'll be right across The Island from his younger sister. They will have a helluva time together, even as I worry about them in the NYC area...

OTOH, my daughter is now away at school, at Montclair University, directly across the Hudson from NYC. She spends every spare second traipsing around Manhattan and environs. She did a semester in Florence, Italy last year. I grew up near Pisa, so I went with her for a week to show her around my old stomping grounds and get her acquainted with Tuscany. Afterwards. she came back to Montclair, having been seriously bitten by the study abroad bug. Now, she's in Melbourne, Australia at Victoria University for the spring semester. She loves the whole study abroad thing, as long as Dear Ol' Dad pays for it...

She even toured western Europe with her high school bestie for a month in 2023 for her high school graduation present. Needless to say us 'rents were "slightly" worried about her, but she was a champ. She's pretty resourceful and smart, as is The Boy. We did good with our kids. Maybe it was just parenting...

 

[1775usmc]

Trade school or straight into the workforce.

In my opinion school is a waste of money unless it's for a select few occupations.

Work ethic > education generally speaking.

 

[1911Fanatic]

If it were me I would be looking at collages in conservative areas. if in CA that would be places like Fresno State, Collage of the Siskiyou, etc... if out of state look at some of the big collages in Southern states.
Some things that may help are looking at news of professor's acting out and then what did the collage do about it. Conservative collages tend to not renew a contract for those that make news for their personal views. DR

When I lived in CA back in the 90's, Fresno State had drive by shootings on campus every friggen few days. I mean like right out in front of the school.

 

[P7M13]

All my data is 40 years oldl.
I had two college mates who were Rhodes Scholars, another one who also went to Oxford, and two more who went to Cambridge. Let's just say those two institutions were very conservative back then. The two women who went to Cambridge both met their husbands there and basically got their Mrs instead of their MS.
I had two colleagues who got their degrees in Germany. Germany used to have the program, if you demonstrated proficiency (i.e. fluent in German), and got above a certain GPA, the republic covered your tuition expense. Both did it this way. Also very conservative, institutions and also data that's 40 years old. I had one college ex GF go to Sorbonne - even in the mid 80's, it was liberal.
I had a GF who studied in Barcelona for a year in the mid 90's. It too was liberal there.
Contrast that with a good friend of mine who went to Harvard. I visited him several times, and each fall for the Head of the Charles. He had several non-American friends who were basically wealthy scion playboys. Harvard was liberal even then. Another good friend went to Babson. It was conservative then, and as I understand it, still conservative.

 

[nwslopoke]

I love hearing @P7M13 saying his daughter has studied abroad and has experienced what I hope my niece can. I am very willing to help. A huge part is fear, which is a shame.

I can't hate because I didn't take advantage of opportunities either until much later. A lot of parents can't fathom their child on the other side of the planet, but from what I understand, it can be much cheaper than studying locally with careful planning, But that includes a lot of "ifs".

 

[Alexx1401]

So basically.... Never?
In full disclosure, I don't have any kids, so take it for what it's worth but I don't know of a country on Earth that I'd like to have a child educated in other than right here. Have you considered a school in a more conservative state? Maybe somewhere like Hillsdale College?

YEP! As much as so many love to complain about the US we still seem to be the place the rest of the world want to live. As for College a LOT goes into choice. Many of them are a HUGE waste of money when you see what they produce. People come out with HUGE debt and seemed to learn nothing that will help. They end up working selling coffee and complaining about the loans they can almost never pay back. As mentioned for a LOT of young people the Trades are FAR better. We seem to always be short on Tradesmen for a long time. Those kids who come out of school with 250K in debt then have to ask Mom and Dad for help when they need to call someone to fix their cars or homes.

 

[Provincial]

My kids are both overseas.

My daughter went to Oregon State, and received Batchelor's Degree's in Education and History. The Covid Recession caused us to decide she should continue on with a Master's in History. Now she is teaching English in Japan with the JET Program.

My son went to Berlin, Germany his Junior year of High School in Rotary Exchange. He learned the language and decided to attend the Free University of Berlin, passing the language tests, a written test, and spending a year in a "prep" program required for foreigners before being accepted at the University. He got involved with the aviation club and now has a glider pilot rating. His education has gone very slowly. I joke that he "just attends school to qualify for the Glider Club." It is now down to getting a thesis completed and participating in an internship.

My observation is that Oregon State is a good school, the liberalism tempered by being focused on Engineering and the Sciences. Her professors didn't seem to be politicized.

The Free University of Berlin seems to be the liberalized European type, with politics at the forefront. I wouldn't send someone there to be straightened out.

Unfortunately, US Public education has a bias against certain religions, and that steers students away from universities that have that sort of values. Those values correspond to success in life, and since they cannot receive public funds, these schools have higher tuitions, and it prices many away from them. This has the effect of censoring ideas in education.

There are many good private Colleges and Universities. Favorable rankings in publications are of questionable value, since they are slanted toward academic liberalism. A school with good values can offer a very good education. It is all about teaching young people to think, instead of what to think.

 

[1911Fanatic]

YEP! As much as so many love to complain about the US we still seem to be the place the rest of the world want to live. As for College a LOT goes into choice. Many of them are a HUGE waste of money when you see what they produce. People come out with HUGE debt and seemed to learn nothing that will help. They end up working selling coffee and complaining about the loans they can almost never pay back. As mentioned for a LOT of young people the Trades are FAR better. We seem to always be short on Tradesmen for a long time. Those kids who come out of school with 250K in debt then have to ask Mom and Dad for help when they need to call someone to fix their cars or homes.

I've always said that the waiter's in a Eugene are the best educated in the world.

 

[dangerranger60]

When I lived in CA back in the 90's, Fresno State had drive by shootings on campus every friggen few days. I mean like right out in front of the school.

Late 80's and early 90's Fresno had gang problems. The Murder rate was pushing that of Chicago. These days not so much.
After two Police chiefs that were taking none of it. The current murder rate is that of cities half their size. DR

 

[Xaevian]

I studied abroad in Beijing China for a semester. I enjoyed it. The students I went with didn't take it seriously though. It was a waste of time for them to go, especially because most of them didn't study Mandarin hard enough.

the good:
You have to interact with the people there to be successful. You are put into an environment that may be completely alien to you. But, you get a pass on most things because you're a foreigner. People are very curious about you being different and making friends is easy. You can gain valuable perspective about things here you may not realize you take for granted. You are often offered some type of position to stay there, like as a language teacher, if you make the right impressions.

The bad:
Not everyone has the personality or ability to adjust to being in a very different environment. Knowing the language is extremely important, unless you are in a place where they eithwr speak English or a huge amount of the population is ESL. You will be judged by your nationality, and if your race is different than their majority, racism is an actual reality, not the theoretical bullshiz it is here. Thick skin and an open mind are a must. Being a female will have additional things to consider as well, as will being LGBTWhatever.

 

[made in china]

I'm going to second the recommendation to study in China.

A great way to experience a shockingly different approach to education, society, expectations, etc.

They absolutely don't partake in the liberal B's we do. Only focus on merit (and money).

My wife said absolutely not to our son going to China. We have an apartment he could live in, but my wife thinks it's too difficult and my son too unprepared. Sounds like a win to me

He's going to get an engineering degree, then we're sending him to a trade school. I think being a tradie is a safer bet, but having both a degree and learn an actual trade? Should give him an advantage....
I sure do wish the engineers I work with had practical experience

 

[RustiShacklfrd]

My sister got a scholarship to a school in vermont. Super liberal school. She was able to study abroad in japan for part of it and hated going back to the libs at that school.