Cheap vs expensive dies

[Sbarton]

Hi all,
I'm just getting in to hand loading and have been looking at dies.
It seems that there's a big difference In price between a basic set and a precision set.
My question for all of you is: what can a $150 set do that a die from a $40 set can't?
Will I see much more runout with the cheaper set? Will I have that much harder time setting it up? Are they so imprecise that the expensive one is required for consistency?
Or conversely, will the expensive set pay for it's self in convenience or a higher precision cartridge?

Just for some background, I've got a co-ax press on the way and a pile of shiny brass I just pulled out of my wet tumbler, still need dies and consumables.

Thanks for your input.

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[Eveskcige28]

I'm still what some may consider a beginner but I've loaded atleast 10000 rounds of various calibers. (I dipped my toes in, then jumped straight into the deep end!) in my experience unless you are going to be doing extreme precision bench rest shooting theres no need for the expensive dies. Lee dies however "feel" cheap, because they are. But they still produce quality ammo. And in some calibers or sets they come with the lee perfect crimp die which is excellent! Lee dies work just fine my only complaint is the lock rings are annoying. But out of the lee hornady or rcbs dies I personally have experience with, I prefer hornady.

 

[nammac]

Been running Lee Precision carbide pistil dies since the mid 80's and more recently, got into rifle reloading, again with Lee Precision dies. Never had an issue with them and they are fully capable of rivaling factory munitions when properly adjusted.

I see no need to spend more when Lee's are perfectly reliable and can go head to head with the others.

Just my opinion...

 

[marcusp323]

I personally won't use Lee rifle dies, as I've had some bad experiences with them. Though most of my pistol dies are Dillon, cause that's what I've obtained over the years, I've used most other manufacturers dies too with no problems. Like what's been stated previously, if you aren't needing to adjust your seating depth to the thousandth, that $150-$200 set of dies isn't going to do you any better than the $40-$50 set will. Lots more to reloading than just the dies too, as I'm sure you'll quickly find out.
You're gonna get spoiled by the Co-Ax too, phenomenal leverage for such a short stroke. I would suggest you spend the $$ & get some Forster lock rings just cause they fit the press much better. Anybody's will work, but they just feel better. My 2 cents.
Mark

 

[po18guy]

Care in the reloading procedure and the choice of reliable, consistent quality components make a far bigger difference than the name on the dies. I have many sets of RCBS, a couple sets of Lee and a Lyman set. Once you are accustomed to the idiosyncracies of each maker, they all work fine. I note here that some die makers pay Lee a licensing fee to use some of their patented features.

As to those pesky lock rings, ever look at the QD seat post clamp on a mountain bike? A lever that you flip to tighten or release? Yeah, that would be nice.

 

[Xrperry]

I tried lee dies, you get what you pay for. Tossed the things and bought rcbs

 

[edslhead]

He's asking the differance between the standard and precision sets , not which brand is best.

 

[Xrperry]

Reread post my apologies. Standard dies should be just fine unless you are shooting bench rest

 

[Certaindeaf]

Lee is best.

 

[Helocat]

Cheep vs. Expensive. = Go cheep buying used expensive dies. OR cheeper buying good basic dies like RCBS. Used gear is out there just have to look for it.

Pistol = just get carbide resizing dies. Going non Carbide puts most into buying #2 set that is carbide later.

"Cheep" dies I use:
I use Lee for their universal decapper die and their under sizer die for 9 and 10 mm. Its like a Harbor Freight hammer, not all that pretty but its a hammer and just works.

Quality and not so cheep dies I use: Dillon

Expensive dies: For my precision rifle loads I have added over time a few high $ micrometer seating dies. (Redding and Hornady)

 

[Sbarton]

Cheep vs. Expensive. = Go cheep buying used expensive dies. OR cheeper buying good basic dies like RCBS. Used gear is out there just have to look for it.

Pistol = just get carbide resizing dies. Going non Carbide puts most into buying #2 set that is carbide later.

"Cheep" dies I use:
I use Lee for their universal decapper die and their under sizer die for 9 and 10 mm. Its like a Harbor Freight hammer, not all that pretty but its a hammer and just works.

Quality and not so cheep dies I use: Dillon

Expensive dies: For my precision rifle loads I have added over time a few high $ micrometer seating dies. (Redding and Hornady)

With the micrometer dies do you feel like you can get a more precise cartridge, concentric wise, or is it just easier to adjust seating depth?

 

[Sbarton]

I personally won't use Lee rifle dies, as I've had some bad experiences with them. Though most of my pistol dies are Dillon, cause that's what I've obtained over the years, I've used most other manufacturers dies too with no problems. Like what's been stated previously, if you aren't needing to adjust your seating depth to the thousandth, that $150-$200 set of dies isn't going to do you any better than the $40-$50 set will. Lots more to reloading than just the dies too, as I'm sure you'll quickly find out.
You're gonna get spoiled by the Co-Ax too, phenomenal leverage for such a short stroke. I would suggest you spend the $$ & get some Forster lock rings just cause they fit the press much better. Anybody's will work, but they just feel better. My 2 cents.
Mark

Thanks for the confirmation on the lock rings, I presumed the brand specific rings would be better for the co-ax as it relies on them to hold the dies.

 

[Sbarton]

Reread post my apologies. Standard dies should be just fine unless you are shooting bench rest

I don't mind specific brand recommendations, I'm new to reloading. I welcome all opinions.

 

[Sbarton]

I'm still what some may consider a beginner but I've loaded atleast 10000 rounds of various calibers. (I dipped my toes in, then jumped straight into the deep end!) in my experience unless you are going to be doing extreme precision bench rest shooting theres no need for the expensive dies. Lee dies however "feel" cheap, because they are. But they still produce quality ammo. And in some calibers or sets they come with the lee perfect crimp die which is excellent! Lee dies work just fine my only complaint is the lock rings are annoying. But out of the lee hornady or rcbs dies I personally have experience with, I prefer hornady.

Thanks for the tip on the Lee crimp die. I was wondering about relying on the seating die for a crimp, or using a dedicated crimping die. I think I'll buy one to see how I like it.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

I don't mind specific brand recommendations, I'm new to reloading. I welcome all opinions.

Well then, my best suggestion is to go down to bi-mart and buy RCBS. Unless you shoot benchrest, all the other stuff is just fluff. Setting up your dies properly is something id be more concerned with. Ive never not been able to get .003" (and less) TIR with regular ol RCBS dies. One other thing i always suggest is to toss the RCBS lock rings and buy Hornady lock rings for your dies. Youll thank me later. Good luck with your loading.

 

[Zathras]

I agree with others that for most purposes, the less-expensive carbide dies will be plenty. I prefer the 4 die pistol sets vs. 3 die as I like to separate the crimp from the seating, but that's just me. I'm still relatively new to the game as well, but in my experience, one area you might want to spend more money is in a good powder distribution solution. I know you were asking about dies, and I think several people have given you some good info along those lines already, but I've found this to be a source of frustration when your powder measure is inconsistent or if it's hard to adjust reliably.

I have tried several powder measures and they just do not do what my RCBS can do as far as consistency and ease of tuning. In a pistol load .1 or .2 grains might mean a whole lot. I forked out the money to get their case-activated linkage set with the small fine-tuner dial attachment and associated drum (can get you links if interested). I still verify my powder measure routinely with my manual scale (just happens to be RCBS as well), especially after any adjustments, change/add powder, etc. I have found it gives me a lot of confidence with consistent charges and I spill less powder with the case-activated setup.

And, since you're new, I'd also offer some other advice:

- Get several reloading manuals. There are quirks/differences and it's good to cross-reference the data (powder vs. projectile manufacturers have different notions of 'maximum' and it depends on the brass manufacturer as well). Stay within spec and on the lower side of the charge until you know more where your capabilities are.
- Seating: focus on getting your COL right and verify with your calipers. It can affect consistency of the performance, but more importantly, seating too low can create dangerous pressure issues. I'd start on the longer (towards the max in-spec) COL, verifying it will cycle in your gun. Verify your crimp holds (push the seated bullet against the table with hand pressure only - don't hit the primer - re-measure the COL to see if the bullet sinks, etc.)
- Since we all like free brass, and many don't reload - realize with random range pickup brass that they won't have consistent case lengths between manufacturers and some manufacturers are even a bit inconsistent within themselves. Some sort by case-length - some don't - just keep it in mind.


Measure - measure - measure. I'd say it's one past the carpenter's rule of measure twice, cut once - measure again. It's only your face, your eyes, your hands, your life or that of someone else's... at stake.

Good luck.

 

[Sbarton]

I agree with others that for most purposes, the less-expensive carbide dies will be plenty. I prefer the 4 die pistol sets vs. 3 die as I like to separate the crimp from the seating, but that's just me. I'm still relatively new to the game as well, but in my experience, one area you might want to spend more money is in a good powder distribution solution. I know you were asking about dies, and I think several people have given you some good info along those lines already, but I've found this to be a source of frustration when your powder measure is inconsistent or if it's hard to adjust reliably.

I have tried several powder measures and they just do not do what my RCBS can do as far as consistency and ease of tuning. In a pistol load .1 or .2 grains might mean a whole lot. I forked out the money to get their case-activated linkage set with the small fine-tuner dial attachment and associated drum (can get you links if interested). I still verify my powder measure routinely with my manual scale (just happens to be RCBS as well), especially after any adjustments, change/add powder, etc. I have found it gives me a lot of confidence with consistent charges and I spill less powder with the case-activated setup.

And, since you're new, I'd also offer some other advice:

- Get several reloading manuals. There are quirks/differences and it's good to cross-reference the data (powder vs. projectile manufacturers have different notions of 'maximum' and it depends on the brass manufacturer as well). Stay within spec and on the lower side of the charge until you know more where your capabilities are.
- Seating: focus on getting your COL right and verify with your calipers. It can affect consistency of the performance, but more importantly, seating too low can create dangerous pressure issues. I'd start on the longer (towards the max in-spec) COL, verifying it will cycle in your gun. Verify your crimp holds (push the seated bullet against the table with hand pressure only - don't hit the primer - re-measure the COL to see if the bullet sinks, etc.)
- Since we all like free brass, and many don't reload - realize with random range pickup brass that they won't have consistent case lengths between manufacturers and some manufacturers are even a bit inconsistent within themselves. Some sort by case-length - some don't - just keep it in mind.


Measure - measure - measure. I'd say it's one past the carpenter's rule of measure twice, cut once - measure again. It's only your face, your eyes, your hands, your life or that of someone else's... at stake.

Good luck.

Lots of Good stuff there, thanks a bunch! Your recommendations align with my regular processes, for just about anything! My work is all about precision and consistency, so that tends to cary over to my hobbies!

I did buy a rcbs uniflow from a member here, seems like a good decision, I'm glad you've confirmed that.

Lost of good stuff from everybody, Keep it coming. I'm taking notes from all of you!

 

[po18guy]

I tried lee dies, you get what you pay for. Tossed the things and bought rcbs

Experiences tends to be hot or cold. What trouble did you have?

 

[P7M13]

With the micrometer dies do you feel like you can get a more precise cartridge, concentric wise, or is it just easier to adjust seating depth?

Micrometers make it easier to adjust seating depth. It's just a calibrated dial to the thread pitch which gives you the number of thousandths you travel with the rotation. You can do the math and achieve the same accuracy, though micrometers are definitely easier to definitively set the depth.
Something that really affects the accuracy of your seating depth is the consistency and shape of bullet metplat (i.e. pointed end). For example, the long ogive and sharp point of Berger OTM Hybrid bullets does not fit properly in most seating dies, basically forcing the bullet by its sharp point alone.

In my experience, every die I have used is concentric. It's the technique you use that makes the difference in your loaded cartridge.

 

[Helocat]

With the micrometer dies do you feel like you can get a more precise cartridge, concentric wise, or is it just easier to adjust seating depth?

Yes far easier, but this is for precision rifle loads mostly for bench rest bolt guns. 100% individually weighed powder charges, (Digital dispenser, RCBS Chargemasters used) sorted bullets so each group is within one grain from each other. (Box of 180gr projectiles, some dead-on, others +1, +2 and +3 gr each makes for 4 sets of different loaded groups)

For rifle rounds being used for hunting, or auto loading like AR's, the bullet setting die from RCBS works great.

And, since you're new, I'd also offer some other advice:

- Get several reloading manuals. There are quirks/differences and it's good to cross-reference the data (powder vs. projectile manufacturers have different notions of 'maximum' and it depends on the brass manufacturer as well). Stay within spec and on the lower side of the charge until you know more where your capabilities are.
- Seating: focus on getting your COL right and verify with your calipers. It can affect consistency of the performance, but more importantly, seating too low can create dangerous pressure issues. I'd start on the longer (towards the max in-spec) COL, verifying it will cycle in your gun. Verify your crimp holds (push the seated bullet against the table with hand pressure only - don't hit the primer - re-measure the COL to see if the bullet sinks, etc.)
- Since we all like free brass, and many don't reload - realize with random range pickup brass that they won't have consistent case lengths between manufacturers and some manufacturers are even a bit inconsistent within themselves. Some sort by case-length - some don't - just keep it in mind.


Measure - measure - measure. I'd say it's one past the carpenter's rule of measure twice, cut once - measure again. It's only your face, your eyes, your hands, your life or that of someone else's... at stake.

Good luck.

Adding to @Zathras advice:

- Eliminate distractions why you load. Focus on what you're doing, mistakes like low/no or 2x powder charges happen from not paying attention.
- Load test loads first and verify they are working correctly at the range before going full ham on knocking out 100+ loads that you discover later don't cycle your firearm or other.
-Along the lines of his COL watch, invest in a Case Gauge for the calibers your loading. In a pinch pull a barrel and use it to drop loaded rounds into to check the chamber and fall free. But the Case Gauges pay themselves back quick in catching issues before you have a 100+ loaded rounds that will not chamber.

Amazon.com : Hornady Cartridge Gauge mm Luger/x (.) Luger : Sports & Outdoors

Amazon.com : Hornady Cartridge Gauge mm Luger/x (.) Luger : Sports & Outdoors

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