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Can't carry off duty, when on duty, he can carry a gun.

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Chee-to, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmmmm, yup that's "rational"......................:huh:

    State trooper can't have gun while off duty due to mental health record, Pa. court rules


    on December 26, 2013 at 12:34 PM, updated December 26, 2013 at 1:25 PM

    Pennsylvania State Trooper Michael L. Keyes is in an odd situation.


    Yet while off duty, he is barred by law from possessing any firearms, because seven years ago he suffered from deep depression, repeatedly tried to kill himself by taking drugs and was involuntarily committed for mental health treatment.

    Keyes' latest attempt to be allowed to have a gun all the time was rejected this week by the state Superior Court.

    That court upheld an earlier ruling by Perry County Senior Judge Keith B. Quigley that Keyes' involuntary mental health commitment constitutes an unsurmountable legal barrier to his ability to possess a gun while off duty.

    An attempt to reach Keyes' attorney, Joshua Prince, for comment on the case wasn't successful Thursday. Keyes has been involved in legal battles ever since completing his mental health treatment. He also had to fight to be reinstated to the state police.

    He was serving as a state trooper in Newport, when he was placed on temporary leave and ordered into mental health treatment in 2006. He finished treatment in less than a year and had to battle to get his job back, even after his doctor cleared him to go back to work.

    An arbitrator's decision ordering his return to limited duty was fought by the state police, but ultimately was upheld by Commonwealth Court. The state Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal of that ruling, and he was placed back on duty in 2010. In 2012, Commonwealth Court also ordered that Keyes be awarded nearly $16,000 in back pay.

    Keyes began battling for full reinstatement of his ability to carry firearms in 2008. The problem, according to court filings, is that the federal Gun Control Act bars those who have been subject to involuntary mental health commitments from possessing guns.

    In its ruling issued Tuesday, the Superior Court found there is no way for Keyes to have the record of his involuntary mental health commitment expunged. That means Keyes cannot surmount the federal ban on his having a gun off-duty, President Judge Emeritus Kate Ford Elliott wrote in the state court's opinion.

    That prohibition does not amount to a breach of Keyes' rights under the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, Ford Elliott found, because it applies only to an "extremely small" class of citizens and has a solid public safety basis.

    "The dangers inherent in the possession of firearms by the mentally ill are manifest," the judge wrote. And while Keyes argued that he is no longer mentally ill, "a present clean bill of health is no guarantee that a relapse is not possible," Ford Eliiott noted.

    "Given the extreme potential harm attendant to the possession of deadly weapons by the mentally ill, and the risk of relapse," the judge wrote, "we see an important government interest in controlling the availability of firearms for those who have ever been adjudged mentally defective or have ever been committed to a mental institution but are now deemed to be cured."

    It is "rational" for Keyes to still be allowed to have a gun on-duty because then he is under the supervision and observation of superior officers and his fellow troopers, Ford Elliott concluded.

    "Were [Keyes] to again fall into a depressive state with suicidal ideation, it would be much more likely to be discovered while he is on-duty and his superiors could then restrict his access to state police firearms," she wrote.

    http://blog.pennlive.com/midstate_i...=/2013/12/state_trooper_cant_have_gun_wh.html
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    That one did it. Now I think I can say I have heard everything.
    WTF is wrong with this nation. HAS everyone gone that far nuts ?
    Does the court comprehend just how far below stupid they are.............
    This whole scenario is so far beyond the twilight zone.......................
    :huh::werd::rollingeyes::nuts::dunno::dynamite::jawdrop:
     
  3. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Unbelievable.
     
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  4. Nutty4Guns

    Nutty4Guns Portland ADHD Superstar

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    Completely Nuckin Futs! Now I've heard everything!
     
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  5. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    It's a circus with the clowns wearing the robes.
     
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  6. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Good analogy too.
    I know the feeling, that one is so far out there I am wondering if someone got saturday night live mixed up with the news........................
     
  7. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Can't do tokillya, but thank God this vodka and OJ is kicking in!! :angry:
     
    Taku and (deleted member) like this.
  8. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone imagine this 10x with obammycare public health records. Don't anyone tell me they are protected by HIPPA as in obammycare that is BS Period. I have always said they will use obammycare to do gun control. This with the cop is just a trial ballon. Time to go to doctors out of country. Yet the left pretend 2A's will still vote back in there communist leaders. Is it 1776 again yet?
     
  9. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Fixed it
     
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  10. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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  11. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Must have been a hell of a night you had on tokillya. :bluelaugh:

    I don't do rum...
    Ended up taking on a whole fing bar at about age 25 on that crap.
    I don't do rum.

    ZTequila and Zshine, good :thumbup:
     
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  12. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    No, I just emphasized it (bigger)

    >>> boocoodinkydoh sob's,
     
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  13. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    That truly fits. Space and that story. They fit tooooo welll. :laugh:
     
  14. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    What disturbs me the most is that I am simply not surprised, I expect this because that is how little faith I have anymore
     
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  15. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    I think its time to get "1776" engraved on the AR
     
    Taku, 41Slinger, Caveman Jim and 3 others like this.
  16. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I understand it.

    On the one hand you have the State Police who do not want him as an officer, but were forced by the courts, etc., to take him back.

    Then you have another different court who says, on a separate but related issue, that he cannot own guns. Theoretically he doesn't - he is issued one by the State Police for duty carry?

    The court who is deciding he can't own firearms is just following the law as they see it, and they cannot say anything about the fact that he has a job as a State Police officer - they have no control over that - different court/process.

    Yes it conflicts, sometimes courts do that - in fact, they do it often, sometimes on the exact same issue.

    Now I don't know all of the exact details of this officer's mental health issues, but I do know people make mistakes in their life from time to time, and sometimes mental health issues can be turned around. I am not a mental health professional with the experience to determine, from an extended examination of this officer, whether he is safe on the job or whether he is safe to own a firearm - but some mental health issues are not a permanent thing any more than a broken bone means you are permanently disabled.

    It is an interesting case though, and it is something to point to in order to show how sometimes our government regs and laws can result in some really screwed up situations.

    I do think that maybe the Oregon legislature should say that if an Oregon LEO (municipal, state, county, etc.) permanently cannot legally own a firearm privately due to federal or state laws, then they should not be in a capacity where they can carry in a role of authority. But you can imagine the uproar amongst LEOs that would cause if anybody even suggested it, much less voted for it - despite the fact that to me it makes sense.
     
  17. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Just more proof of my assertion that this system would be powerless and utterly incompetent against the militia. These people couldn't thrash their way out of a wet paper bag
     
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  18. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly the type of person obozo wants in his personal police force that is equipped as good or better than our military.
     
  19. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Law says he can't "possess" guns not "own" guns

    In its ruling issued Tuesday, the Superior Court found there is no way for Keyes to have the record of his involuntary mental health commitment expunged. That means Keyes cannot surmount the federal ban on his having a gun off-duty, President Judge Emeritus Kate Ford Elliott wrote in the state court's opinion.

    "Given the extreme potential harm attendant to the possession of deadly weapons by the mentally ill, and the risk of relapse," the judge wrote, "we see an important government interest in controlling the availability of firearms for those who "have ever" been adjudged mentally defective or "have ever" been committed to a mental institution but are now deemed to be cured."
     
  20. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    why are they banning people because of mental health issues (civilans, ex military)