Can a friend buy an antique gun and then ship it to me if I have a C&R FFL?

SPU · Apr 11, 2012

I don't own a business and haven't used my 03FFL other than to buy a couple old milsurps.

But a friend is interested in buying an out-of-state 90+ year old handgun, and then have it shipped to me.

I would record the transaction but no money would change hands.

Is this legal?

fd15k · Apr 11, 2012

This would not be an antique, as there is a very specific federal definition of such. So there are two issues in question - straw purchase and shipping firearms across state lines. This wouldn't be a straw purchase because it is okay to give firearm as a gift to a non-prohibited person. Also as an FFL you can accept a qualifying (C&R) firearm from another state. I personally don't see a problem, as long as the firearm is properly shipped (UPS/FedEx with carrier notified about handgun). But I am not a lawyer, and this is not a legal advice

Under the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, any cartridge firearm made in or before 1898 ("pre-1899") is classified as an "antique", and is generally outside of Federal jurisdiction[3], as administered and enforced by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE).

Nwcid · Apr 11, 2012

If I understand what you want to do it is NOT legal.

ANYONE can buy/ship an antique firearm without an FFL as they are not considered "firearms" by the ATF, Antique Firearms Defined - U.S. Government Info/Resources Your described gun is not a antique.

The info that came with your C&R is very specific about what you are allowed to do with it. The short version is it allows you to have C&R guns shipped directly to you for YOUR personal collection. Receiving guns for others is specifically lists as not allowed.

Now what you do with a gun YOU have acquired for YOU with your C&R after it is YOURS is up to you. It is legal to sell part of all of your collection to legal buyers at any time..........

fd15k · Apr 11, 2012

Nwcid said:
If I understand what you want to do it is NOT legal.

ANYONE can buy/ship an antique firearm without an FFL as they are not considered "firearms" by the ATF, Antique Firearms Defined - U.S. Government Info/Resources Your described gun is not a antique.

The info that came with your C&R is very specific about what you are allowed to do with it. The short version is it allows you to have C&R guns shipped directly to you for YOUR personal collection. Receiving guns for others is specifically lists as not allowed.

Now what you do with a gun YOU have acquired for YOU with your C&R after it is YOURS is up to you. It is legal to sell part of all of your collection to legal buyers at any time..........

Good catch. I got the situation wrong, probably tired. I thought friend is getting him a present

SPU · Apr 11, 2012

NWcid, that is my basic understanding as well. Thanks for confirming it. However, I didn't see anything in the dozens of pages of info from the BATFE that would prevent me from purchasing my C&R eligible firearm, and then deciding later to sell or give away part of my collection. I guess I need to tell my friend no, I cannot be a transfer agent for him, despite no money exchanging hands.

Nwcid · Apr 11, 2012

SPU said:
NWcid, that is my basic understanding as well. Thanks for confirming it. However, I didn't see anything in the dozens of pages of info from the BATFE that would prevent me from purchasing my C&R eligible firearm, and then deciding later to sell or give away part of my collection. I guess I need to tell my friend no, I cannot be a transfer agent for him, despite no money exchanging hands.

Correct, you can NOT be a transfer agent for him.

As you said, YOU can do what YOU want with YOUR guns at any time......... Even the day you buy them......

MarkAd · Apr 12, 2012

However if you bought the gun and added it to your collection, recorded it in your bound book and then at some point in time decided to sell it to your friend and recorded it in you bound book that would be totally in compliance with the law since you are allow to sell firearms from your collection.
Like the others said you can not be a transfer agent. That requires another class FFL

hermannr · Apr 12, 2012

SPU said:
I don't own a business and haven't used my 03FFL other than to buy a couple old milsurps.

But a friend is interested in buying an out-of-state 90+ year old handgun, and then have it shipped to me.

I would record the transaction but no money would change hands.

Is this legal?

If you are an 03 FFL (C&R), and the weapon qualifies as a C&R (over 50 years old) and if you friend wants to GIFT it to you, yes, he can send to directly to you. He can send it directly to you if you wish to purchase it from him also......

The only thing you cannot do is send him money and have him purchase the weapon for you. You have to purchase (or be gifted) from/by the actual owner.

For you guys that don't know what a C&R license is....any weapon that is over 50 years old, and some specifically designated (by the ATF) weapons that are not 50 years old yet, but are not in current production are considered "Collectables and Relics".

If you are a collector, and you hold a C&R license, you can purchase and sell without going through a store front business FFL, as long as the weapon is at least 50 years old, and/or on that special C&R ATF list. A C&R license IS an FFL license, that is just restricted to those who collect, and do not make a living at buying and selling C&R qualified weapons.

Misterbill · Apr 12, 2012

YES. You are a FFL and licensed to receive such items. n Unless you are intentionally deceiving the .gov about the pervious ownership of the gun, you are AOK. Straw sales hardly apply in this case as it's gong into your bound book anyway.

Nwcid · Apr 13, 2012

Misterbill said:
YES. You are a FFL and licensed to receive such items. n Unless you are intentionally deceiving the .gov about the pervious ownership of the gun, you are AOK. Straw sales hardly apply in this case as it's gong into your bound book anyway.

Maybe we are reading what the OP wants differently. Are you saying it is legal for an 03 FFL (C&R) to receive and transfer guns for others?

I read that the OP has a friend that found a C&R gun, say online. The friend wants the gun, the friend is buying the gun, the gun is for the friend. The friend wants the OP to use his 03 FFL to receive and transfer the gun to him. With everything I have ever read or heard this is not legal. If you have another sources of info I would like to see it.

I agree that if OP lives in state A and friend lives in state B, friend finds gun (C&R) in state B and buys it and want to (give, sell, trade, ect) it to OP he would be legally allowed to receive it. But again that is not what I read the OP to mean.