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Buying a gun from a private FFL holder? READ THIS FIRST!

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by treemanx, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    I wanted to post what is happening to me here right now, so that you all may have a heads up to this kind of situation.

    If you are going to buy a gun from a private FFL, make sure you ask him if his FFL information is squared away with ATF and OSP.

    I won a rifle on an online gun auction, from a private FFL holder halfway across Oregon from me. I called him the same day, to set a time to meet and complete the transaction. He said we could meet that evening, but that he would need to complete the deal at his house, due to FFL rules.

    So I drove for 2 1/2 hours last night, to get to his house, to pay for my gun. After finally getting there, the seller has me fill out the background check forms, fingerprints me, and takes my money. But when he tries to call in the background check with OSP, hes told that they dont have his FFL info on file.

    He then turns to me and says, "Sorry, your driving home without your gun." He offered me no compensation for my time, trouble, or fuel costs. He did offer to pay the shipping costs, to have the gun mailed to an FFL in my area, but didnt offer to help with the extra cost of using that other persons FFL.

    There are some things I learned from this that I thought people might want to know.

    With that in mind, DONT drive to meet an FFL to buy a gun, until he tells you his license is in order.

    I will be keeping you all updated to the situation as it progresses, and if this guy doesnt keep his end of the agreement, Ill let you know his name so nobody else has to go through this with him.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 10, 2009
  2. elsullo

    elsullo Portland Oregon New Member

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    The ATF maintains a searchable database of all valid FFL holders. You can check before you drive! www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/ .....................elsullo :thumbup:
     
  3. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    Well, so far everything seems to be going ok with the shipping process, and it seems as though this was an honest mistake on his part. I was pretty upset at first, thinking that this seemed a bit shady, but after doing a bit of homework, it seems as though its not.

    I still recommend checking out your sellers FFL, at the link provided in the last post, (thanks esullo), before you commit to a long drive to buy a gun. Ill still keep you guys posted as to what happens, and will post pics of my new gun whenever I get it.
     
  4. finch6013

    finch6013 Oregon City Active Member

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    att moderators. I think this link would be a good addition to the site. Thanks for sharing
     
  5. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    Yea Finch6013, I totally agree. This would be an excellent resource for NW Firearms members to have before buying guns from registered FFL dealers. Make it a sticky thread, or put a thread about it on the homepage, lets make it easily accessable for members!
     
  6. bcp

    bcp SW WA Member

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    Private FFL?

    What's that mean? The FFL application asks if your are in business to make a profit. If the answer is "no" then no license.

    Bruce
     
  7. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    Yeah, I think your right. But they dont require you to be a business. As I understand it, the best reason to get your FFL as a private citizen is to make a profit, by getting to buy guns directly from the manufacturers and saving yourself loads of cash.

    But they dont require you to have a business to get the license, though. They tell you that if you dont have a gun shop, then your house you live in is now your place of business, and you need to make your sales there.

    So when I said "private FFL," I meant someone who is NOT a gun shop owner, but a private citizen with an FFL selling guns from his house or at gun shows. There are like 3 different classes of FFL licenses, if I understand it right, and based upon what your going to do as a licensed dealer, determines what class of FFL you apply for.
     
  8. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    There are no "classes of FFLs", there are 11 types of Licenses, and there are also 3 special occupational tax classes (which include several types of licenses).

    Your average Joe gun shop owner is going to be a Type 1 most likely. (unless the pay a SOT)
     
  9. kirkcdl

    kirkcdl Roseburg,ORYGUN Member

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    Okay,was the "honest mistake" a case of his FFL expired or something similar,or is it that he has no FFL to start with?I'm curious...It would seem that OSP would use EZCheck automatically...
     
  10. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    Thanks PhysicsGuys, I was reaching there a little bit. Im still learning about this. Does the rest of what I said sound right?
     
  11. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    I guess what happened is this:

    The ATF DOES have him on file, and his license is in good standing with them. So the problem was between this guy, and the OSP.

    The way OSP runs there background checks is, they ask the FFL holder for a hard copy of their license, to have on file at the OSP Gun Check office. So that when an FFL dealer calls to run a background/gun check, the OSP has a verified hard copy of their License.

    Well, my guy hadnt mailed in his current hard copy of his license yet. So he was hoping that the OSP would just check the ATFs Insta-check website, to prove he was a valid FFL holder. The OSP guy said, that not our procedure, we need your hard-copy. That ****** my guy off, and he got mouthy, and the OSP guy wouldnt help him anymore after that.
     
  12. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Well a shop owner is still a private citizen who happens to use their license to help their business. The ATF does require you to "Has premises for conducting business or collecting", but this could be in your home.
     
  13. NWMoss

    NWMoss Lost, permanently... Member

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    Where does THAT get fun?

    Maybe he felt better, but it sure didn't help him land the sale, now did it?

    If I were you, if he calls you back to complete the transaction I would make sure you got compensated via discount for your failed attempt and also for going out there again. Don't think he's gonna do that though.
     
  14. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    Yeah, wouldnt you want to keep the OSP on your side? I do. Especially if Im a Licensed Dealer. That could bring some unwanted attention to you from the PTB.

    But honestly, I dont give two bags of a-holes how he treats the OSP or ATF. I just wish he'd been a little nicer so that my deal could have possibly gone through last night......considering I drove sooooo far to get it done.

    I do however believe that it was an honest mistake, and Im willing to see this deal through because of that......(plus I really want the gun!!) So as of right now, the check is in the mail to him, and my FFL buddy up here is sending his info down to get the gun in the mail. Like i said, Ill keep you all posted on how the sale goes from here....
     
  15. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    OK, that makes sense with what Ive found out so far. Yeah, I actually think I may look into getting my FFL, but I have to try to justify the expense of the fees, against how much money I think Ill be spending on guns in the next three years. I think it sounds like it might be good for me to do, though.

    Ill be sure to be nice to OSP when I call, too.:bluelaugh::laugh:
     
  16. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    A regular type 1 ffl is $90 a year + $200 one time free IIRC, but you give up several civil liberties when you get your FFL.
     
  17. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    Yeah, I guess it leaves your property up for inspection at any time, but is there anything else other than that??
     
  18. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    I's pretty sure that you are required to have records of all of you personal firearms in your collection as well, and you can no longer do FTF transactions.
     
  19. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

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    Oh yeah, forgot about that. That would be a bummer. Maybe I wont be doin that any time soon then. I have nothing to hide, but I definately appreciate my privacy.
     
  20. bcp

    bcp SW WA Member

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    From:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License

    Federal Firearms License types
    Type ............... Usage
    Type 1 Title 1 dealer or gunsmith. NFA (with class 3 tax stamp) other than destructive devices
    Type 2 Title 1 dealer doing business as a pawnbroker
    Type 3 Licensed collector of Curio & Relic (C&R) firearms
    Type 6 Licensed manufacturer of ammunition and reloading components other than Armor Piercing ammunition
    Type 7 Title 1 dealer and manufacturer of firearms, including NFA (with class 2 tax stamp) other than Destructive Devices, ammunition and ammunition components other than Armor Piercing ammunition
    Type 8 Importer of Title 1 firearms and ammunition
    Type 9 Dealer in Title 1 firearms including NFA destructive devices, but no other NFA items
    Type 10 Manufacturer of Title 1 firearms, ammunition and ammunition components, including NFA Destructive Devices but no other NFA items, and not including Armor Piercing ammunition
    Type 11 Importer of Title 1 firearms, ammunition and NFA Destructive Devices, but no other NFA items