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"blackpowder muzzleloading AOW?

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Not soliciting legal advice, but am wondering if a electronically actuated blackpowder muzzleloading "Cellphone gun" is legally defined as a AOW? It came up in conversion with my father and NFA documentation was somewhat opaque on the specific manner.
 

Reno

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Not soliciting legal advice, but am wondering if a electronically actuated blackpowder muzzleloading "Cellphone gun" is legally defined as a AOW? It came up in conversion with my father and NFA documentation was somewhat opaque on the specific manner.
I’m far from an expert on muzzleloaders, but last I heard, if it’s loaded from the front, and uses black powder, it’s not defined by common firearms law. Therefore it can be configured out of the normal. Electric ignition though, beats me.

@AndyinEverson has likely forgotten more on the subject than I know.
 

Andy54Hawken

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  • Army
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Well a quick search was ....useless...:D

In some states if the firearm is not a :
Matchlock...
Wheellock...
Flintlock...
Or
Percussion lock...
Be it made yesterday or 100 + years ago...
Then the gun falls under modern gun rules.

But...
In some states...
If it is a modern made replica , usually a percussion long gun , or cap and ball revolver...But sometimes any modern replica , the gun can fall under modern gun rules....

Then , not to forget some states say it depends on the ignition , if its "enclosed" yet still loads from the muzzle , its a modern gun...
Or if its a "inline" action...
One problem with the "inline" criteria ...is that the wording can be vague and not take into account that the "Inline" action , has been around forever....I have a boxlock flintlock inline pistol circa 1760's and it would be a "modern" gun , in some states , 'cause of the action style.

It all gets sooooo damn confusing when we don't play by the same rules state by state....:confused::D

As a general rule muzzleloaders are exempt from Federal rulings regarding modern guns , or as in the recent case of a suppressed muzzleloading rifle...
Or barrel length rules....they in general do not apply to muzzleloaders...
So I would hazard a guess that the firearm in question would be exempt....except when its not.

As always remember that I am not a lawyer and be sure to check with the laws within your state and local where you reside....
Andy
 
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Here in yUK ANY replica that can shoot a live round is classed as a Section 1 Firearm under the Firearms Act of 1967, 88 and 97, and the possessor MUST be in possession of a Firearms Certificate [aka FAC] authorising purchase BEFORE making said purchase. Even then, the type and calibre must be noted in advance - ie. .44 calibre BLACK POWDER handgun, or .58cal BLACK POWDER rifle/carbine. On purchasing it, the seller fills out the sold box, and issues you with a pro-forma letter for you to countersign and send off to the local county police HQ - they issued you with the FAC in the fust place.

If, on the other tentacle, you have an antique firearm that is either a muzzle-loading OR a cartridge arm, and the calibre is one of the many hundreds that are unobtainable unless you make them yourself, it is classed as a Section 58 [Obsolete calibre] Firearm, and anybody over age 18 can buy one, handgun or rifle.

However, if you want to shoot it, then first you must have it entered on your FAC as a Section 1 Firearm [unless it's a shotgun we are talking about - different kind of license here, NOT a certificate]. Only when it has been authorised on your FAC can you shoot it without fear of a five-year jail sentence.

Most countries in Europe do not require any kind of documentation for a single-shot BP firearm, just an age limit for purchasing it.

tac
 

KKG

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If you are talking about a "Remote" firing system, than that is something that I don't believe is legal in WA. It would be a "Set Gun" as in if you had it next to a window to act as a Burglar Alarm. They also aren't legal to Hunt with. You can't set one up around a deer feeder(also not legal in WA) and fire it remotely when a deer or other critter shows up on the remote camera.
 
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If you are talking about a "Remote" firing system, than that is something that I don't believe is legal in WA. It would be a "Set Gun" as in if you had it next to a window to act as a Burglar Alarm. They also aren't legal to Hunt with. You can't set one up around a deer feeder(also not legal in WA) and fire it remotely when a deer or other critter shows up on the remote camera.
Yup, that moves it away from being a 'handheld manually-operated firearm' to 'remotely-controlled lethal device'...

tac
 
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Federally, you are good to go, because for something to be a "firearm" under GCA68 requires fixed ammunition. I also, vaguely, remember someone making something like this, though I haven't found it via the web.

At the state or territorial level, however, as others mentioned, may be another matter.
 
OP
L
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Essentially the question is does the fact its "muzzle loading" and overrule the fact it would not look like a firearm (normally firearms that don't look like firearms are categorized as AOW). The only real world examples i have seen of something similar was a ill fated attempt called the Koscielski's/AFT "credit card shotgun" and older "key guns" for the 16th to mid 19th century (examples I've seen of the key guns where not listed as NFA items)
 

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