Best brace...

[ConcernedCitizen]

I read a bit about the recent case, and it appears the defendant had added a cane tip to the end of his cheek brace, to "level the firearm when it was in the safe" ...



The jury found him not guilty, but it still raises concern over any modifications made to an existing design.

This is part of the reason why I standardized on the Tailhook brace; there is no arguing that it works well for the intended purpose of shooting as a pistol.

AFGs and VFGs are a separate issue. Even though my 10.5" pistol is long enough to be considered a "firearm" if I were to add a VFG, the "pistol" designation offers more advantages and freedom than the "firearm" designation does.

Just my personal opinion, of course.

 

[EPS]

View attachment 513673

Yep seen that before.

Essentially the guy has a very common setup.

Anyone could go to AR15.com AR pistol picture thread and see a ton exactly the same.

Lol your going to jail according to laws in some states.With that on the bottom of your hand guard

 

[Flopsweat]

I read a bit about the recent case, and it appears the defendant had added a cane tip to the end of his cheek brace, to "level the firearm when it was in the safe" ...

View attachment 513680
View attachment 513681
The jury found him not guilty, but it still raises concern over any modifications made to an existing design.

This is part of the reason why I standardized on the Tailhook brace; there is no arguing that it works well for the intended purpose of shooting as a pistol.

AFGs and VFGs are a separate issue. Even though my 10.5" pistol is long enough to be considered a "firearm" if I were to add a VFG, the "pistol" designation offers more advantages and freedom than the "firearm" designation does.

Just my personal opinion, of course.

Great info! If they're going to be that picky about such a minor modification it's good to see they got denied.

 

[Member 34319]

The guys gun from the questioned court case.



More infos on the case.

ATF Suffers Rare Court Loss in Ohio Unregistered 'Short Barrel Rifle' Prosecution - The Truth About Guns

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

That's a lot of stuff to have hanging off of a pistol!

 

[Flopsweat]

The guys gun from the questioned court case.

View attachment 514177

More infos on the case.

ATF Suffers Rare Court Loss in Ohio Unregistered 'Short Barrel Rifle' Prosecution - The Truth About Guns

This is the best article I've read on this subject so far. Not a huge fan of TTAG but it looks like they did a great job cutting though the BS on this one.

 

[Member 34319]

That's a lot of stuff to have hanging off of a pistol!

The comment section on TTAG was brutal.

Many there said though he wasn't prosecuted for the brace with cane tip, he should have been for all the crap on the gun.

 

[mkwerx]

Dude went full Sheepdog Pie-hittin Threep'r on that build. Variable power rifle scope, pressure switch controlled light, angled offset foregrip, cane tip "extendable cheek rest" and the skull faced lower and only thing he's missing is a pistol bayonet with bottle opener pommel. And maybe a PEQ15... ya I can see why a prosecutor tried the case, honestly. The combination of parts - to me - shows clear intent that this is an SBR. His only saving grace is the extendable cheek piece, not an arm brace. Am arm brace on this gun screams SBR and probably would play a role in getting brace equipped guns reclassed as sbrs not pistols.

Personally I would avoid a variable power scope, or any magnified optic on an AR pistol even if legal by definition.

Good on the jury for the not guilty verdict, but I hope the sheep hittin pie dog learned a lesson in discretion. He came close to forking things up for all AR pistol owners.

 

[Flopsweat]

Dude went full Sheepdog Pie-hittin Threep'r on that build. Variable power rifle scope, pressure switch controlled light, angled offset foregrip, cane tip "extendable cheek rest" and the skull faced lower and only thing he's missing is a pistol bayonet with bottle opener pommel. And maybe a PEQ15... ya I can see why a prosecutor tried the case, honestly. The combination of parts - to me - shows clear intent that this is an SBR. His only saving grace is the extendable cheek piece, not an arm brace. Am arm brace on this gun screams SBR and probably would play a role in getting brace equipped guns reclassed as sbrs not pistols.

Personally I would avoid a variable power scope, or any magnified optic on an AR pistol even if legal by definition.

Good on the jury for the not guilty verdict, but I hope the sheep hittin pie dog learned a lesson in discretion. He came close to forking things up for all AR pistol owners.

What, you've never seen a scope on a pistol before?

 

[mkwerx]

What, you've never seen a scope on a pistol before?

Not a 4-6x and I just noticed he does indeed have a laser, he has the NC Star multipack of airsoft grade crapola on there. Needs 45 degree (or maybe 69 degree, cuz Operatin operationally sometimes means operating upside down at odd angles while trying to hit the target and sometimes 45 just ain't enough degrees) offset irons.

 

[Member 34319]

Sure is a lot of felons over at this site.

AR Pistol Picture ONLY Thread. - Page 141 - AR15.COM

 

[CamoDeafie]

The huge thing about that "extended cheek rest", at least from what another forum talked about..is the fact that the cane tip extended the "Length of Pull" to beyond 13.5", an arbitrary number formulated by the ATF. Supposedly, at the shortest, a pistol brace can not give a LOP of greater than 13.5" measured from the middle of the trigger itself, to the end of the brace.
According to the prosecutors, the very addition of the cane tip, made the brace into a shoulder-able stock ;"redesigned it as a shoulder stock"

 

[308]

The comment section on TTAG was brutal.

Many there said though he wasn't prosecuted for the brace with cane tip, he should have been for all the crap on the gun.

Add a Harris Bipod on that thing and I would be like shut up and take my muny!

 

[saxon]

#1 atf says do not mod the brace, guy modded brace
#2 guy was acquitted based on the ATF letters approving the ARM brace
#3 court tried to burry the ATF letters
#4 we now have court precedence that an arm brace does not make a SBR

 

[saxon]

extended the "Length of Pull" to beyond 13.5", an arbitrary number formulated by the ATF.

citation please

 

[CamoDeafie]

citation please

ATF Changes Mind Again – All Pistol Braces Can Come Out of the Closet! | SHWAT™

relevant quote

By "permanent affixing," ATF considers that to be adding permanent Loctite to the large set screw that secures the Blade into the dimples in the KAK tube. As long as you don't red Loctite the set screw in place, ATF considers it to be "temporarily placed" and "perfectly okay to shoulder." (He didn't beat around the bush on this topic.)

"Length of pull"—for lack of a better word regarding pistol braces—begins to enter a "gray area" above 13.5″. Above 13.5″ begins "to enter shoulder stock area." (His words. I believe this has to do with the "comfortableness" aspect.) On an AR-15 pistol, the "length of pull" for the Blade is approximately 13.13″, so no issues there. But if you use the Blade on a firearm that requires a large adapter of some sort, please make sure that you only use the dimples up to the point that you remain below the 13.5″ length. Stay below 13.5″ and according to ATF, it's okay to shoulder a Shockwave Blade.

Now it might be just one agent pulling stuff outta their rear ends but.... I've been trying to find official letters/documentation stating such. If it was not germane to the discussion, why then did they submit a photo of the AR pistol in question with the modified brace and the measurement showing it to be over 13.5"?

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

It's also worth noting that the ATF was measuring along the hypotenuse, and not parallel with the bore, which is the correct method.

When measured parallel with the bore, the LOP with extension was almost exactly 13.5".

 

[Flopsweat]

The huge thing about that "extended cheek rest", at least from what another forum talked about..is the fact that the cane tip extended the "Length of Pull" to beyond 13.5", an arbitrary number formulated by the ATF. Supposedly, at the shortest, a pistol brace can not give a LOP of greater than 13.5" measured from the middle of the trigger itself, to the end of the brace.
According to the prosecutors, the very addition of the cane tip, made the brace into a shoulder-able stock ;"redesigned it as a shoulder stock"

Even more important to me was the fact that the defense showed that the prosecution measured the LOP wrong and that it was in fact 13.5" when measured correctly.

Oops, @ConcernedCitizen posted this very point while I was typing.

 

[CamoDeafie]

It's also worth noting that the ATF was measuring along the hypotenuse, and not parallel with the bore, which is the correct method.

When measured parallel with the bore, the LOP with extension was almost exactly 13.5".

Even more important to me was the fact that the defense showed that the prosecution measured the LOP wrong and that it was in fact 13.5" when measured correctly.

Oops, @ConcernedCitizen posted this very point while I was typing.

Might be the photo, seems parallel, given angle of camera, but if indeed hypotenuse...... really, another reason to abolish the NFA and GCA laws altogether
I mean...is it that shocking that a gov agency is going to find ways to "creatively measure" in order to make it "illegal"? I am glad that the jury nullified the charges, and acquitted the defendant.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Might be the photo, seems parallel, given angle of camera, but if indeed hypotenuse...... really, another reason to abolish the NFA and GCA laws altogether
I mean...is it that shocking that a gov agency is going to find ways to "creatively measure" in order to make it "illegal"? I am glad that the jury nullified the charges, and acquitted the defendant.

If you like "creative measuring", how do you feel about shoelaces and slamfires?