ATF Troll or just another guy trying to get along?

[PaulZ]

Hello,
Quote Originally Posted by Bluemaxx51
I'm interested in your Beretta but have a few questions, does this gun come with a case? Are you willing to ship it and does this transaction need to be FTF?
Quote Originally Posted by PaulZ
It does not have a case. I am willing to ship it if the law allows. I will look that up.
I will be traveling to CA around mid March so I could stop in Roseburg. Keep in touch.
Thanks,
Quote Originally Posted by Bluemaxx51
Tim
So I'm definitely interested but won't have the cash until mid March so I guess I can just check back then and if you still have it then we can figure out how to execute the transaction. Thanks

BTW I'm pretty sure it is legal to ship guns in Oregon.
So here's the deal, I live in SoCal right now but am moving to Roseburg in a year or sooner (already have a house there) so I was going to have you ship the gun there to make the transaction easier (I'm coming up in April) and keep the shipping costs down but depending on where in CA your going we may be able to do this FTF. Where in CA are you going?

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[Nwcid]

I am trying to follow this. I am not quite sure who is who with the way your quotes came out.

Legally you can ship guns intrastate (in the same state) without having to go though and FFL, per Federal law, check your state law. Now it will be up to whatever company you chose to ship with if they will allow it, most have rules saying only to or from FFL's, or yourself.

So along with that to do intrastate shipping or FTF transfer legally both parties HAVE to be residents of the same state. If you are from OR and he is from CA just because you both happen to be in the same state does not make a legal transfer.

https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons

If you provide me with some more clarification of exactly who is doing what I can give a more detailed answer.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Wouldnt even bother with him.
No sale is worth getting screwed over.

Its always a red flag (For ME) when someone wants to buy something sight unseen and perfer NOT to do something FTF.

Legal to ship rifles in OR but pistols you cant without FFL.

But you dont have any way of knowing if hes Darth Vader.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

But you dont have any way of knowing if hes a non felon, or a third party just using a buddies address.

So, if there is no way of knowing, then I would say it would be hard to say that "he had reason to believe he was a felon."

In any case, it smells fishy, and if it smells fishy, it's not worth it. Sadly, I could see our Government whether it be BATFE, or local saying anything to "entrap" an individual that didn't know if a transaction was actually lawful.

Then again we live in a day and age where "paintball gun silencers" are considered GCA items and where "potato guns" ... "or similar device must submit a written request (not e-mail) to the Director and include a complete and accurate description of the device, the name and address of the manufacturer or importer, the purpose for which it is intended, and such photographs, diagrams, or drawings as may be necessary to make a classification. A final determination may require physical examination of the device. Such requests for classification should be submitted to: Bureau of ATF, Firearms Technology Branch."

We live in a day and age where every movement is questioned. Best to leave it to in state transfers, or don't ask where they are from. It is reasonable to believe that if someone is from Oregon even if they don't necessarily say where they are from.

 

[Nwcid]

But you dont have any way of knowing if hes a non felon, or a third party just using a buddies address.

So, if there is no way of knowing, then I would say it would be hard to say that "he had reason to believe he was a felon."

How do you know even if you meet face to face? That same quote could be used for anyone you didn't run a background check on then it still it not 100%. Maybe he is not in the system yet.... Maybe he committed a felony on the way to meet you...... Maybe he is from out of state but driving his buddies car with in state plates.

I believe the actual quote you are looking for is " if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law" which is NOT just felons. In the case above an interstate transfer of a firearm between individuals is not legal so that would make him a "prohibited" person.

If you have no reason to believe they are a prohibited person then the transfer is legal, not the other way around.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

How do you know even if you meet face to face? That same quote could be used for anyone you didn't run a background check on then it still it not 100%. Maybe he is not in the system yet.... Maybe he committed a felony on the way to meet you...... Maybe he is from out of state but driving his buddies car with in state plates.

I believe the actual quote you are looking for is " if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law" which is NOT just felons. In the case above an interstate transfer of a firearm between individuals is not legal so that would make him a "prohibited" person.

If you have no reason to believe they are a prohibited person then the transfer is legal, not the other way around.

The 2 points I was trying to make were independent of each other and poorly portrayed. The point I was trying to make is one needs not ask where someone is from or if they are otherwise prohibited to sell a firearm legaly. Not to say this case is legal.

 

[Nwcid]

True but if they make a comment of begin from out of state or show up in a car with out of state plates or something similar the you do have reason to suspect. Not saying that will end a sale, just means you need to do more or ask more questions. Maybe they just moved into state and have a valid ID/Drivers license for that state, but just have not done their license plates yet. I know my truck tabs were expired and it is the year I have to get new plates (scam from the state). I have the new place, got them back in Dec, but they are still not on my truck yet because I have been being lazy and it has been so cold.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Alright you rascal detail folks!

Sweet smurfing jebus, by my above mentioned post and the wording I used I suppose no one here has read previous posts of mine and my backing of constitutional carry and embrasing ones freedom of private sales and FTF transfers.


Im just weary of non FTF sales and scammers.
Again, in other threads Ive gone over personal events in which Ive been tailed home by thugs and had a few Indian and Nigerian money order scammers attempt to pull something.
The "felon" part was mearly a grammatical slip up.

I throw that word around not by "Johnny laws" deffinition but my own.
I often refer to "felons" as thugs, chimos, hard druggies..etc

So yeah we can get into self righteous semantics OR you can all drink a big cup of chill the smurf out.

LOL Ill edit the posts.
Fer goodness sakes.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

True but if they make a comment of begin from out of state or show up in a car with out of state plates or something similar the you do have reason to suspect. Not saying that will end a sale, just means you need to do more or ask more questions. Maybe they just moved into state and have a valid ID/Drivers license for that state, but just have not done their license plates yet. I know my truck tabs were expired and it is the year I have to get new plates (scam from the state). I have the new place, got them back in Dec, but they are still not on my truck yet because I have been being lazy and it has been so cold.

In the state of Oregon I have no obligation to notice what car or plates the car has on when selling or buying for that matter a firearm. I'm just saying it's only reasonable to suspect if you care enough to notice.

 

[1337BaldEagle]

Alright you god damn detail folks! Christ almighty.

Sweet jesus, by my above mentioned post and the wording I used I suppose no one here has read previous posts of mine and my backing of constitutional carry and embrasing ones freedom of private sales and FTF transfers.


Im just weary of non FTF sales and scammers.
Again, in other threads Ive gone over personal events in which Ive been tailed home by thugs and had a few Indian and Nigerian money order scammers attempt to pull something.
The "felon" part was mearly a grammatical slip up.

I throw that word around not by "Johnny laws" deffinition but my own.
I often refer to "felons" as thugs, chimos, hard druggies..etc

So yeah we can get into self righteous semantics OR you can all drink a big cup of chill the bubblegum out.

LOL Ill edit the posts.

Oh please don't I quite enjoy the "Christ almight" response that was badgered out of you.

 

[Dunerunner]

I'd suggest to the buyer going through an FFL and see if they balk! There are plenty of Oregon residents to sell to without tight rope walking the edge of the law. I'd have to pass on this deal if it were me.

 

[Fast Eddie]

ATF Troll or just another guy trying to get along?

I agree with others, lots of buyers out there right now, why risk your good name and your gun rights for a sale? I would back off a few bucks and take a local deal that allows you to sleep at night without worry. If your buyer is "just trying to get along" he can do it properly when he gets up here, there will be guns for sale then too.

 

[RVTECH]

It's simple - no 'physical' FTF - no deal - no hassle.

 

[Outrider]

From the exchange, it sounds like Bluemaxx51 doesn't know where he'll be or what he needs to do. Beyond that, he doesn't have the cash and won't have it for close to a month from now. Who wants to wait a month for a guy to pay? And what's the plan if he doesn't have the money in mid-March?

Honestly, it's a waste of time trying to figure out what he is. If he doesn't know how the process works because he's new to buying firearms online, let him know. If he can't work within the parameters of the law, walk.

 

[LogicBomb]

if it feels wonky just walk away

 

[Nwcid]

Nope, I have a soul I am a Fire/EMS/Rescue/Dive team/ect kinda guy.

I have just spent a lot of time reading the laws. I prefer not to ever live in prison or pay out my life savings fighting to keep my rights. Like everyone else I make mistakes and correct them when I do.

More then that though I generally do my best to back up what I say. I would not take advice strictly based on what "some guy on the net told me" so I don't expect anyone to think differently of me. So when I post the relevant links people can read and decide for themselves.