Army - Replace the M4 ?

[DirectDrive]

Yes Bobo, I somehow knew you would be around soon.

 

[CamoDeafie]

The French Foreign Legion has been where all the great things of Napoleons military has been hiding since The Great war in 1910s

 

[Boboclown]

Yes Bobo, I somehow knew you would be around soon.

Was already here. And already said a bullpup would never happen here.

 

[RicInOR]

.20 Nosler - a New Cartridge that is Not Yet Announced?! - The Firearm Blog

If you remember, the .22 Nosler is a .224 caliber cartridge with a case body similar to that of 6.8 SPC but with a rebated rim of .378 diameter. The case thickness allows to fit the cartridge into 6.8 SPC magazines and the rebated rim makes it fit the standard AR-15 .223/5.56 bolt face. So to switch to this caliber all you need is a different barrel and 6.8 SPC magazines.

Judging by the drawings, the .20 Nosler is based on the same rebated rim case as the .22 Nosler. However, it is not quite a necked down .22 Nosler. If you look closely, you'll see that it has slightly different shoulder and neck height. Obviously, both cartridges are aimed at the varmint hunting market. The .20 Nosler should be able to offer impressive ballistics for a cartridge fitting into the AR-15 platform.

 

[DirectDrive]

Was already here. And already said a bullpup would never happen here.

But you keep hopin'
Love is a powerful emotion.

 

[Boboclown]

But you keep hopin'
Love is a powerful emotion.

Nope. Knowing NIH syndrome, the U.S might make their own bullpup and have the same problems with as the SA80. I'll keep my hopes for never being issued a M249 if/when I go in.

 

[AK0perator47]

I know that the last post was 3 and a half months ago but I figured that the Army has put a hold on the new rifle it was time to make a few statements.

The 300 blackout as much as I like it will not be the new caliber. Even though it only requires replacing the barrel. Quite simply is the fact that it drops quickly after 300 yards. So it won't make the requirement for distance and lethality.

Next is the 6.8 mm. It also drops like a brick out past 300 yards. Remember that they want lethality with penetration and distance. So it's out.

Now truthfully we can go back to the 7.62x51. It has reach and penetration. Then it's the facts of weight. Now truthfully it's not that bad in this area. The problem is that our military thinks that our service members are fricking pack mules. Then it's all the wear on the parts and the added recoil. So it's a possibility; just maybe not the best answer.

So what about a different type of rifle? Why make it harder on people to learn a new manual of arms and train them new maintenance when the AR platform has been used for the last 50 years! The platform is not the issue.

So, keeping the type of rifle and wanting something easy to shoot, has a good ballistic coefficient, lethal penetration, good distance (out to at least 1000 yards), reasonably flat trajectory, decent amount of rounds carried, and is still supersonic; 6.5 creedmoor is that caliber.

Say it isn't so Mr AKOPERATOR47! I wish that it wasn't. However, over 2000 fps at 500 yards and 1300 ft lbs of energy, it is effective.

 

[EPS]

Lol the only good thing to come out of the military not using the AR platform is that when the anti gun nuts say no civilian should own a military weapon we can say it's not a military weapon they don't use it any more LOL

 

[Goosebrown]

They're going to trade them all in for bump stocks

 

[Argonaut]

I really don't think the M4 will be replaced anytime soon. They may add more 7.62 rifles in units but the basic M4 will have a large presence for the foreseeable future. Even the Russians have moved away from the 7.62X39 after decades of experiance against the 5.56 caliber. There may be improvements....(piston operation?) but the platform and caliber will change little.

 

[AK0perator47]

I really don't think the M4 will be replaced anytime soon. They may add more 7.62 rifles in units but the basic M4 will have a large presence for the foreseeable future. Even the Russians have moved away from the 7.62X39 after decades of experiance against the 5.56 caliber. There may be improvements....(piston operation?) but the platform and caliber will change little.

Actually the new AK is in both the 545 and 762 calibers.

 

[CamoDeafie]

The Army cancelled their program for the interim 50,000 7.62x51 rifle contract, because they figured its better to just replace the m4/m16 series with a new weapon and new intermediate cartridge of between 5.56 and 7.62 NATO calibers.. which points to the 6.5 and 6.8 types as a possible replacement; however it is quite likely to fail yet again in making the switch on a monetary level.

The last time the Army made such an enormous changeover would be back in the 60s when the M16 replaced the M14s; and even then they still kept the 7.62x51 caliber for machine guns and marksmen rifles and special guns.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Hopefully it'll be drop safe. I think the French have a pretty good design on that.

 

[EPS]

If they replaced it would they put the old ones up for sale as surplus LOL HEHE

 

[Goosebrown]

If they replaced it would they put the old ones up for sale as surplus LOL HEHE

What we have is for the most part a lot better than what they have. Shot extensively with 2004-2010 era army vets and they were bitter about the general condition of their weapons.

 

[EPS]

What we have is for the most part a lot better than what they have. Shot extensively with 2004-2010 era army vets and they were bitter about the general condition of their weapons.

Yep the LOL HEHE was the sarcasm in my post I know the government would not sale any firearms as surplus and like you said there probley junk

 

[CamoDeafie]

If they replaced it would they put the old ones up for sale as surplus LOL HEHE

Not bloody likely, at least not to the American civilian market... probably only to LEO/Govt Agencies under 1033 program, or just give them to NATO allies to use up (see Lebanon)
Reason is mainly.... the FOPA of 1986, and NFA of 1934..... seeing as the M4 has a happy switch, and is not 16" barrel... and are made post 1986.

Edit; I would like the 1033 program to be made available to the unorganized militia specified under the 2nd Amendment but that won't ever happen with the current group of congressional leeches

 

[Brutus57]

They should literally bite the bullet and go to that caseless 6.5 or 6mm, whatever it is. The STG-44 got delayed because Germany was worried about range beyond 400 meters and "we have all this 7.92 to use up......" Transition to a new Infantry weapon isn't always fast and seamless. Just do it. SCAR seem,s to get mixed reviews.

Brutus out
Me, I still want a Garand but then I am into my 7th decade.

 

[Goosebrown]

They should literally bite the bullet and go to that caseless 6.5 or 6mm, whatever it is. The STG-44 got delayed because Germany was worried about range beyond 400 meters and "we have all this 7.92 to use up......" Transition to a new Infantry weapon isn't always fast and seamless. Just do it. SCAR seem,s to get mixed reviews.

Brutus out
Me, I still want a Garand but then I am into my 7th decade.

Seven decades of curmudgeonosity. Cool.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Personally, i would like to see the 7.62X51 make a come back, force troups to learn to shoot while carrying less, and have a modular platform that can be configured to the mission with out having to issue several diffrent arms to accomplish that! Will they go this direction, probably not, but its a yuge mistake to continue using 5.56 or adopting a new small dia. Round! We need mid range performance and stopping power, not light weigjt and round count down range! A bull pup would be impossable in the U.S. Mil, too mamy requirements to be met and a bullpup wouldnt do it!