Army - Replace the M4 ?

[RicInOR]

Popular Mechanics - Three Rifles That Could Replace the Army's M4A1 Carbine ... or not

Or is it a new season and therefore time to re-hash.

"In new comments to the Senate Armed Services Committee, U.S. Army Chief of Staff Mark Milleyhas said the Army is "taking a hard look" at a new German assault rifle and other designs to replace its existing weapons."

Three Rifles That Could Replace the Army's M4A1 Carbine


My gut says no. Just because something is about 60 doesn't' mean you toss it away
If you need an 800 m rifle, use the existing stock of M14s. What do our NATO allies use in 7.62x51 ?
FAL's ?


Soon enough robots will take the field and something else will be called for.




Of course this ultimately comes down to a caliber argument.
Garand proposed something about 7mm - the first M1s were not in 30-06. That was a Army requirement due to surplus WW1 stocks.
Stoner proposed something about 7mm - the 5.56 was an Air Force (McNamera? ) change.

Anyways - 6mm, 6.5, 7, 7.5 or 8 anyone?

I think 7.5+ were due to limitations in power from the start of the 20th century.

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[RicInOR]

Army Chief Milley Says Army Is "Taking a Hard Look" at HK416, Other Commercial Off-The-Shelf Rifles - The Firearm Blog

 

[CamoDeafie]

I don't know that the L1A1/FALs are still general issue.... I do know the marksman versions are on a limited basis service in the UK.... but pretty sure the SA80s are the general issue for the Brits...while in Germany, I think its one of the HK models...and for other NATO countries, FN FNC 5.56 rifles and the FN SCAR series in Belgium

 

[Boboclown]

but pretty sure the SA80s are the general issue for the Brits.

They need to replace that.

 

[EPS]

Army Chief Milley Says Army Is "Taking a Hard Look" at HK416, Other Commercial Off-The-Shelf Rifles - The Firearm Blog

Special forces such as SEALS already use the HK 416 lol there very expensive

 

[RicInOR]

The HK 416 is essentially an AR with a Piston, right.
Is that worth 3 times more?

If you want that feature, I am sure FN to add it to new orders of M4 platform.

Do you still need the forward assist button? Some commercial models dropped that.


Cost choices - trade one feature for the other.

 

[Boboclown]

The HK 416 is essentially an AR with a Piston, right.
Is that worth 3 times more?

If you want that feature, I am sure FN to add it to new orders of M4 platform.

Do you still need the forward assist button? Some commercial models dropped that.


Cost choices - trade one feature for the other.

View attachment 369979


View attachment 369980

Is it worth three times more? Nope. FN could probably add it, but not sure if they already have their own design or if they'd have to test out a new one.

In regards to the forward assist, commercial models can get rid of it and its of no concern since there isn't much use for civilians to have it. For the military it has some uses. Brass check being what comes to mind most often.

 

[MrMillspecer]

I doubt the 5.56 will be replaced anytime soon. Firearm and ammo weight is why the 5.56 and the M4 is hard to beat.

And the HK416 is great, although heavier and very spendy. Converting some of the current stock to piston for full auto use, would be much more cost effective.

I'm surprised the AKs aren't going to be their next replacement. Just kidding.

 

[Flymph]

In Europe they use a G3 or G36, I assume anyway. Heckler and Koch seems to run the military arms market, eapecially in Europe. I just think beretta undercut them as a budget sidearm. They're fine, but there's a reason special forces seem to use usp's and Sig.
I assume they will use all of these in some situation or another. They'll probably keep the M4 in general tho.

THINK OF ALL THE SURPLUS AMO IF THEY SWITCHED OVER TO 7.62! WOOWEE

 

[Boats]

If there isn't going to be a caliber change, the only type of rifle change that even begins to make a bit of sense is going to a bull pup design, to get back some lost barrel length to wring more out of the 5.56.

 

[Flymph]

If there isn't going to be a caliber change, the only type of rifle change that even begins to make a bit of sense is going to a bull pup design, to get back some lost barrel length to wring more out of the 5.56.

This would be the smart thing to do...

 

[Boboclown]

If there isn't going to be a caliber change, the only type of rifle change that even begins to make a bit of sense is going to a bull pup design, to get back some lost barrel length to wring more out of the 5.56.

As much as I like the AUG (well, the only bullpup is the AUG), I don't see the U.S adopting any bullpup.

 

[DirectDrive]

x

 

[Flymph]

What about the L86?

As much as I like the AUG (well, the only bullpup is the AUG), I don't see the U.S adopting any bullpup.

 

[EPS]

The HK 416 is essentially an AR with a Piston, right.
Is that worth 3 times more?

If you want that feature, I am sure FN to add it to new orders of M4 platform.

Do you still need the forward assist button? Some commercial models dropped that.


Cost choices - trade one feature for the other.

View attachment 369979


View attachment 369980

I have a upper on my pistol with no forward asst

 

[Boboclown]

What about the L86?

That gun had so many problems at the start and they needed HK to fix it. Now its heavy, and last I heard some of them prefer the M4.

 

[Flymph]

i still want one... lol
Those M4's are crazy light, 7.5lbs loaded seems pretty hard to beat.

 

[Boboclown]

Another issue is with maintenance. People who hate ARs will complain that it needs more cleaning and oil than something like an AK, but IICR it was said the SA80 requires more cleaning and oiling than the M4 does.

 

[DirectDrive]

Don't like any of the 3 platforms.
Seems like more a cartridge need than the need for a new platform.
Many reports of multiple 5.56 round hits needed to bring down an enemy combatant.

6.8SPC looks like it would feed in full auto very well.
6.5 Grendel sports that nice long pill but it is slow.

Seems like 6.5 could be made into a good body armor penetrator and also extend the range of an M4 type weapon.
For reference, 25 rounds of 6.8 will fit into a mag that is similar in size to a 30rd 5.56 mag, so it would be good to stay near this cartridge size.
A hybrid of the two ?
Maybe a long version of the M4 receiver set to accommodate this new cartridge similar to LWRC SixEight ?
Creedmoor is off the table since we already have 7.62x51....and it would have to be a smaller cartridge so carbine ammo load would remain as close to 5.56 as possible.

Maybe they can keep improving 5.56 ammo, but it seems like a larger boiler room would be a big help.

 

[Boboclown]

They need to adopt a Galil Ace in .308. Then we can get the Ace using the superior Galil mags. Kidding of course, would never happen.