Arming teachers. HR34

[KKG]

NoLimePlease; If You are willing to let the Government or Businesses or Individuals to BAN anything related to Firearms; then You are NOT pro-Gun!!! I don't care or see ANY reason for a Bump Stock but I'm not willing to have them Banned just because someone else thinks they should be. If someone wants a Bump Stock and will use it in a respondible manner then they should be able to own one. That's PRO-GUN!!!

 

[nammac]

If this is true, and it certainly appears reasonable to be true, then we are in a very bad place indeed. But i just cannot believe there can be a collective group argument based on this kind of ignorance.

But there is that kind of ignorance, Diane Fienstein - "Mr & Mrs American, hand them all in". That's their one and only goal... But rest assured that ole crypt keeper has armed security... Is she better than we are? Is her life more valuable? Even better, is her life worth more than saving just one child???

 

[nammac]

If you really think this is not about disarming law abiding Americans, how is it Sen. Diane Fienstein introduced "Assualt Weapon" legislation the morning after the Parkland shooting, a piece of legislation that contains over a hundred pages of specifically named arms to be banned...

Would you think she and her aides stayed up all night crafting such legislation? I propose that's the same legislation she's been hawking since the Clinton Assualt Weapon Ban was allowed to expire under George Bush...

See, their motives are quite clear, they have one goal and one goal only.

Now we need to take off the gloves and give them the street fight they should have been given a decade ago.

Let's get interstate concealed carry while we're at it...

 

[NoLimePlease]

NoLimePlease; If You are willing to let the Government or Businesses or Individuals to BAN anything related to Firearms; then You are NOT pro-Gun!!! I don't care or see ANY reason for a Bump Stock but I'm not willing to have them Banned just because someone else thinks they should be. If someone wants a Bump Stock and will use it in a respondible manner then they should be able to own one. That's PRO-GUN!!!

I am a law abiding citizen. If items are "banned" through legislative action, I will abide by the law. And I will stand up for my rights and beliefs. However what I will not do is jump on the "come and take 'em" bandwagon. It takes away the volume from real, intelligent conversation and voice on any subject matter that is pro-2A. I am not "willing" to let anyone ban anything without due process. Nor do I support anything that conflicts with the rights granted to me as a American citizen under the the second, or any amendment.
The picture is not blurry for me there.

 

[AMT]

Removing "Gun Free Zones" is a good start.
The problem with just passing legislation to remove the gun free zone law is that schools then will be left to implement policy as set locally. This needs to happen on a federal level, with federal protection for those teachers who do choose to carry.

And there is nothing wrong with giving teachers more pay. Its unbelievable how poorly prioritized our public education system is for funding. Again, part of the problem when you cannot give the children the time and energy that they need while developing.


@AMT, You are absolutely right. Great place to start. But there is nothing wrong at all with training. And I am starting to gather that the same groups that want to "ban whatever" have a generalized fear of anything "gun" related. Therefore, allowing teachers in school while concealed carrying could very well be seen as just another "gun nut" to these people. If there was a requirement to be "trained" in some way, its possible more would accept armed faculty as a form of protection rather than just a teacher with a gun.

Thank you everybody for the conversation here. It really helps me sort out my thoughts and ideas and make sense of it all.

This issue I have with this is..... and this is just a simple question...... were you trained in some "special" way to get your CC? Something other than sitting through a "class"?

Yet, you/me/us/we are ok to walk around, where legal, and CC. No more "special training" required.

I just don't understand why a teacher would need some sort of "special training" to CC while they were at their job. If they have their CC permit and choose to carry, then let them (just like you or I at a grocery store). Nobody is none the wiser. That alone puts a seed in a looney's head: "....who is carrying and who isn't...."

That is the only thing I see wrong with all this hoopla. They shouldn't need "special training" to CC, no more than you/me/us/we need any more "special training" to CC anywhere we chose to go.

Yes, I agree that if special training classes (similar to what LE's go through - as mentioned before) were offered free to any teacher that wants MORE training, EXCELLENT! I am all for it.

But to require them to go through any more "training" that you/me/us/we have to go through is wrong in my opinion.

Allow CC at the schools. As mentioned before, let them wonder who is CC and who is not. Looney's might think twice about it.

Kinda like you've never heard of a looney walking into a police station and start shooting at people. Or, when is the last time that a person has gone into a public grocery store and started shooting at people? It doesn't happen very often because there is the possibility that there are people CC'ing in the store.

As we all know, looney's go after gun-free zones because they are pretty sure no one is CC'ing. I am just advocating that schools should not be gun-free zones and anyone who can legally get a CC permit should be able to carry on any school's grounds if they choose to do so.

 

[Cigarlvr313]

This is a bit lengthy but I agree with Mr Shapiro 100%.

Every Single Government Authority Failed In Parkland. And They Expect Americans To Forfeit Our Self-Defense Rights To Them?

Michael Laughlin/Sun Sentinel/TNS via Getty Images


ByBen Shapiro
@benshapiro
February 23, 2018


On Thursday night, the American public learned two bombshell pieces of information regarding the Parkland, Florida mass shooting. First, we learned that the Broward County Sheriff's Office was told in November that the Parkland shooter "could be a school shooter in the making" but deputies didn't bother to write up a report; that report "came just weeks after a relative called urging BSO to seize his weapons." Then, in even more shocking news, we learned that an armed school resource officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School sat outside and waited for four minutes during the six minute attack that ended in the deaths of 17 human beings.



So, here's what we know.

We know the FBI was warned specifically about the Parkland shooter not once, but twice — and did nothing.

We know the Broward County Sheriff's deputies were called to the home of the Parkland shooter at least 39 times since 2010.

We know that the Broward County Sheriff's Office was warned multiple times about the Parkland shooter.

We know that an armed officer was present during the shooting and did nothing — and that JROTC students showed far more courage.

And yet we are told that the solution to mass shootings is for law-abiding citizens to give more authority to the authorities that failed, and to turn over our only way of protecting ourselves?

Why in the world would a single law-abiding gun owner hand over his or her weapon to the same authorities that did nothing to protect the children of Parkland? Why would a single law-abiding gun owner turn over his or her capacity for self-defense to people who were incapable of defending children at every step of the way?


And why in the world should we blame the NRA, which literally had nothing to do with Parkland, for the failures of every institutional barrier to a massacre? Why should we blame law-abiding gun owners who didn't shoot up kids for the failures of those who are paid to do stop evil monsters like the Parkland shooter? Why should we take Sheriff Steve Israel seriously when he blames lack of gun control, Dana Loesch, and the NRA, rather than his own radical incompetence and the radical incompetence of those under his authority?

Children are dead not because millions of good citizens own AR-15s, but because dozens of pathetic incompetents and cowards in a position to do something instead did nothing. All the misdirection in the world isn't going to change that inconvenient fact.

 

[nammac]

I'd say there's been enough compromise from the pro-gun side, starting way back in 1934. We've given enough, they need to strengthen the processes they demanded be put in place. They need to enforce penalties for non-compliance and failure of jurisdictions to provide critical
Information in a timely manner. Agencies and jurisdictions need to be held accountable for inactions.

They have all the tools necessary, but somehow have failed to put them together to achieve a seamless method of stopping nut jobs...

Perhaps they need to go revisit and change those policies and procedures.

I say no further gun laws, no further restrictions, no further infringements. They've been provided a sufficient toolset, now go use it.

Edited for spelling misteakes...

 

[41mag]

Thanks for the link. I don't see anything in that report that actually reports on his real on-job training involving 'active shooter' protocols.

If there really has been 'need' since 1953 for SRO at that facility, what does the public actually get for its $75k annual salary? Property & low level drug crimes, paint ball pranks, an armed uniformed(?) sworn LEO hiding in the dumpster, is it?

 

[nammac]

This is a bit lengthy but I agree with Mr Shapiro 100%.

Every Single Government Authority Failed In Parkland. And They Expect Americans To Forfeit Our Self-Defense Rights To Them?
View attachment 433575
Michael Laughlin/Sun Sentinel/TNS via Getty Images

View attachment 433576
ByBen Shapiro
@benshapiro
February 23, 2018


On Thursday night, the American public learned two bombshell pieces of information regarding the Parkland, Florida mass shooting. First, we learned that the Broward County Sheriff's Office was told in November that the Parkland shooter "could be a school shooter in the making" but deputies didn't bother to write up a report; that report "came just weeks after a relative called urging BSO to seize his weapons." Then, in even more shocking news, we learned that an armed school resource officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School sat outside and waited for four minutes during the six minute attack that ended in the deaths of 17 human beings.



So, here's what we know.

We know the FBI was warned specifically about the Parkland shooter not once, but twice — and did nothing.

We know the Broward County Sheriff's deputies were called to the home of the Parkland shooter at least 39 times since 2010.

We know that the Broward County Sheriff's Office was warned multiple times about the Parkland shooter.

We know that an armed officer was present during the shooting and did nothing — and that JROTC students showed far more courage.

And yet we are told that the solution to mass shootings is for law-abiding citizens to give more authority to the authorities that failed, and to turn over our only way of protecting ourselves?

Why in the world would a single law-abiding gun owner hand over his or her weapon to the same authorities that did nothing to protect the children of Parkland? Why would a single law-abiding gun owner turn over his or her capacity for self-defense to people who were incapable of defending children at every step of the way?


And why in the world should we blame the NRA, which literally had nothing to do with Parkland, for the failures of every institutional barrier to a massacre? Why should we blame law-abiding gun owners who didn't shoot up kids for the failures of those who are paid to do stop evil monsters like the Parkland shooter? Why should we take Sheriff Steve Israel seriously when he blames lack of gun control, Dana Loesch, and the NRA, rather than his own radical incompetence and the radical incompetence of those under his authority?

Children are dead not because millions of good citizens own AR-15s, but because dozens of pathetic incompetents and cowards in a position to do something instead did nothing. All the misdirection in the world isn't going to change that inconvenient fact.

Amen, preach it brother, the truth hurts. Those who failed need to be held accountable. We need to push back on them at every step along the way and call them out to be accountable for their inactions!

 

[ma96782]

we haven't seen much public information about the *nameless villain* who FAILED to do his job while on assignment as a security officer

Well....
TRUMP did mentioned it, in his news conference with the Australian PM.

Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

Think about what REALLY IS at the heart of a LIBERAL's utopia?

Answer: A society where only the Govt, Police and Military has all the guns.

Yup, but things need a start. So, Form 4473, BGC laws, registration and it all leads to confiscation.



Aloha, Mark

 

[American123]

Whether a teacher is armed or not makes NO difference if he inclined to do harm he will find a way.
Also an armed guard has the probability of hitting a student ~~ close quarters also using an AR indors is wrong~~ need something that will NOT go thru 2/3 walls. Just my .02/c

If this is true, and it certainly appears reasonable to be true, then we are in a very bad place indeed. But i just cannot believe there can be a collective group argument based on this kind of ignorance.

Think about it, every time something like this happens they don't propose anything that actually makes kids safer or specifically targets criminals, or specifically strengthens the defensive/offensive capabilities of our kids at schools. They only propose things that will strip rights and guns away from law abiding citizens.

We have consistent proof that felons are given light sentences in court for heinous crimes, straw purchasers don't get punished barely at all for purchasing for felons. We have documented evidence that the AG ran guns into Mexico and at least one of those was used to murder a BP agent. We have a large trail of bodies of people who have claimed to have evidence of the Clinton corruption. You still think that they care about "peasant" children. Maybe at face level they do, but dead kids are a front point to their agenda. Dancing in the blood to push a agenda.

 

[etrain16]

I ask WHY is there a push to have teachers "trained" to CC if they chose to carry?

In WA I didn't have to take any "training" what-so-ever. For my OR and Utah permit I sat through a "class".

I am not "trained" to CC daily when I go to store, doctor office, etc, etc. I am "allowed" to because I went through the process to be able to carry concealed.

Again, why would the teachers need special training to carry concealed if they want to?

JUST ALLOW CONCEALED CARRY ON SCHOOL PROPERTY BY ALL WHO ARE AUTHORIZED TO DO SO, WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS OF THEIR STATE TO BE APPROVED FOR CONCEALED CARRY !!!

First, I agree with what @SKrueger said - train them, using local LE, to understand the unique circumstances they may face in a school setting - lots of kids, lots of activity - how do they respond to and engage an active shooter, if necessary. Also, how can they help be certain the LE's don't mistake them as the possible bad guy.

There is also a question of disarming the naysayers who don't want to allow teachers to be armed. By showing they have good training, it simply removes one more objection they can make about it. I have recommended in other threads that the teachers be paid to take the training and to be retrained on at least an annual basis. I also think any teacher that wishes to carry in a school to do so by choice, not by mandate.

 

[Hayshaker]

A lot of education people are liberal ~~ so your going to get a lot of push back from them.
And they would/should get training to stay proficient . Just taking a class about laws DOES NOT make you proficient. I need to get out and shoot at least twice a year ~~ probably more and I think I'm probably somewhat of a minority on doing that much shooting
However shooting places / ranges are few and far between ~ especially if your a suburbanite

 

[Cigarlvr313]

Amen, preach it brother, the truth hurts. Those who failed need to be held accountable. We need to push back on them at every step along the way and call them out to be accountable for their inactions!

They don't want to be held accountable.........we need to take our government back from these criminals.......

State Lawmakers Race To Shield Selves From Open Records Law

 

[Cigarlvr313]

Trump was a great start but we have a long uphill road ahead........

 

[JohnnyD]

it' already in the works here in Washington. well see how far it goes. I'm hoping people wake up and realize this is the only way to protect our kids.
Local senator drafting bill to arm teachers in Washington schools

 

[11Charlie]

it' already in the works here in Washington. well see how far it goes. I'm hoping people wake up and realize this is the only way to protect our kids.
Local senator drafting bill to arm teachers in Washington schools

Maybe there is hope for us yet!

 

[Caveman Jim]

Math is hard.






Guns?
So easy a caveman could do it.

I resemble that remark....