AR-10 accuracy?

[HaveGun]

Bought my first AR-10 a few months ago and just now finally got it dialed in. Shot it today with a factory load and 2 loads I put together. Not sure whether or not to be happy with the results since I'm not really sure what to expect from the rifle.

It's a PSA Gen 2 lower with a Gen 3 upper with 18" barrel. No fancy trigger or BCG. I have $700 into it. Built it as a hunting/SHTF/battle rifle. Initially put a cheap UTG 3x9 lighted reticle scope on it and couldn't get it to group at 100yds. I blamed it on the scope since the crosshairs were blurry and it was a cheap scope.

I replaced it with a Nikon P-Tactical 2x7 and took it to the range today.

It was a bit windy with maybe 7-10 mph cross breeze.

Got it sighted in and was happy with the initial group with factory Federal 150gr soft points.



Apparently didn't let the barrel cool down enough since the first group with the Hornday ELD-x 178gr and 42 grains of Varget were disappointing...



Let it cool for a bit and tried again and got 1 1/8" with the same load...



Then tried the other load, using Nosler Ballitstic Tip 165gr and 44 grains of Varget. Again, didn't let it cool down enough, apparently...



Let it cool down and tried again with much better results...



Still, the best group I can get is just over an inch at 100yds, using a mid-power scope. Not bad, but not sure if I should be expecting something better.

The rifle functioned flawlessly and the scope sight picture was excellent. I was surprised that factory 150gr loads were just as accurate as the 165gr and 178gr custom loads. Will probably try some 150gr loads with IMR 4895 next to see what happens.

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[spider]

What is the barrel manufacturer?

 

[HaveGun]

What is the barrel manufacturer?

PSA. I just bought a complete upper.

 

[spider]

Happen to know the twist rate and the way the barrel was made?

 

[HaveGun]

Happen to know the twist rate and the way the barrel was made?

1:10 made out of 416R stainless...

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-gen3-pa10-18-mid-length-308-win-1-10-stainless-steel-15-lightweight-m-lok-upper-with-bcg-ch1.html

 

[03A3Sporter]

Honestly none of those groups are horrible considering the barrel isn't broken in just yet and the barrel is not a premium barrel. It's been my experience it takes more than a few rounds to settle in and start shooting well.


ETA ... What trigger are you running ?

 

[HaveGun]

Trigger is stock and not that great. Serviceable for it's intended use.

 

[Camelfilter]

Trigger is stock and not that great. Serviceable for it's intended use.

Mayhaps an MBT2, if your considering a reasonably inexpensive upgrade. -Or if you feeling lucky- Joe has one in the fall website fundraiser for a prize!

Don't have one, just a thought aloud.

A review from Larue website:

Reviewed by Anonymous on 1 year, 9 months ago
Installed the LaRue MBT-2S trigger in my PSA -10. Fantastic. My vision of a working-man's budget .308 AR that punches way above its weight class is finally complete! At $87, this trigger is a damn good deal for what you get. Will be buying another as funds permit. Together with PA's 1x8 acss, the MBT-2S really helps me get the most out of my poor man's build. Thank You, LaRue!!
2 out of 2 people found this helpful.

 

[HaveGun]

Mayhaps an MBT2, if your considering a reasonably inexpensive upgrade. -Or if you feeling lucky- Joe has one in the fall website fundraiser for a prize!

Don't have one, just a thought aloud.

I entered the fundraiser and became a Bronze supporter...

I still have PSA's polished trigger assembly in the bag it came in a few years ago. Bought it for my old Bushmaster, which has a horrible trigger, and never got around to installing it. Not sure if it is any improvement over the one I have in the Gen 2 lower, which I think already comes with it.

I have no problem messing with my Glock triggers and polishing them and trying different pieces, but have never tried messing with the AR components.

 

[ron]

The factory Federal load shoots as good as your 'Custom" load indicates you could improve your reload. I would
suggest the 168 Sierra Match King they shoot considerably better the other manufacture's 168 'Match' bullets. I
also would highly recommend IMR 4064. Quality brass with uniform neck tension makes a big difference in
accuracy. Good luck have fun.

 

[03A3Sporter]

I can say this for certain about AR rifles and accuracy , a GOOD quality trigger goes a very long ways to helping group sizes. Back before all the current options were available I remember installing a JP trigger years ago when they were about the only game in town, the addition of that trigger reduced my group sizes by half in a Colt HBAR that was no in way free floated . The gun would already do MOA with a decent hand load but really shot well after the trigger upgrade.

After that experience no matter the rifle I usually will upgrade the trigger to something more conducive to accuracy .

 

[03A3Sporter]

I also would highly recommend IMR 4064. Quality brass with uniform neck tension makes a big difference in accuracy. Good luck have fun.

I concur with this, IMR 4064 is my goto powder in a 30 caliber rifle . It has a reputation for accuracy going back further than most here have probably been alive.

My Garand shoots excellent groups as do my bolt guns with IMR 4064. I also have an 03 Springfield that shoots a tight clover leaf of 5 shots using IMR 4064 and Sierra bullets.

 

[HaveGun]

The factory Federal load shoots as good as your 'Custom" load indicates you could improve your reload.

It's funny, but I've found that the cheapest Federal loads in .30-06 and .308 are always the most accurate in my rifles.

I have some 4895, 4350, and Reloader 22 on the shelf. I'll have to look into the 4064.

 

[P7M13]

It's PSA. Check torque on all your parts. I have experienced a bad gas block, others have written about loose barrel nuts.
I've been told that some AR10s are at best 1.5moa guns.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

I use 41.5 IMR-4895 and 168 Nosler or Sierra bullets in Lapua brass for my heavy barrel DPMS AR 10. It is sub MOA at 200yds. The same load does outstanding in 308 M1's.

 

[bfoosh006]

Look up the Paracord Trigger Job videos on Youtube. It will smooth out a USGI trigger, without lightening its pull.

IMHO, your barrel should be broken in more.

PSA barrels ( DC Machine makes them and is owned by PSA ) are bulk barrels...well made , but, there is little polishing lapping done to the interior bore.

In the meanwhile.. check to make sure the gas tube is properly "freefloated" through the upper receiver, and readily and smoothly enters the gas key.... NO binding

Make sure there is no contact between the gas block and free float tube.... and little chance of contact.

Double check the scope mount screws tightness.

How snug is the upper to lower fit ? A snug fit , IMHO, is very helpful for wielding the AR consistently... and that allows you to focus on your stance / bench position.
Again, JMHO... but a snug fitting upper to lower is very similar to a bedded bolt action. Any loose fitting upper can easily throw a shot.
And for those that believe AR fit doesn't matter... and the US Army tested and proved it....I strongly suggest you read the "acceptable" level of MOA used in the test... 7MOA. ( Basically read the actual test... it is shocking what was considered acceptable. )

I rarely allow my barrels a cool down period. JMHO, but the AR should be able to take high volume of fire abuse.. and still achieve reasonable sized groups. I don't mean F/A... but it should be able to handle 10rds at a moderate pace... fire, reacquire POA, fire, reacquire POA... etc

That said.... I also don't fire one load then another , different load , then another different load while checking for precision results. I believe, and have seen various powders / bullets / factory loads not fire decent groups until the barrel is "seasoned" to the next , different load repeatedly... and that can take 5rds of the new round , to settle in / season the barrel.

CMP has a thread concerning what powders not to use after another.... so it can matter.
List of what powders not to use after another. - CMP Forums

Barrel cleaning as an aid to precision...
I quit using bristle bore brushes.
I use VFG bore pellets, ( remember to buy the pellet adaptor for your cleaning rod ) Kroil and JB Bore Bright Polish. ( All available from Brownels, and if you wait for free shipping even cheaper )

Watch some of the videos.. JB Bore polish - Google Search

What do you have the Adj. GB set at ?

And FWIW... Fed. 150gr SP Blue Box has proven to be quite accurate in my various 308 PA10's.

 

[ferret427]

For a basic AR10, if you are around 1 moa, and your shooting fundamentals are solid, with match grade ammo, you aren't too far off. Depending on a lot of factors between build, ammo and your shooting, expect 5 round groups mostly from .75 to 1.25 moa at 100 yards.

At 100yds, environmentals don't matter much (if at all), and velocity difference really won't either, unless it is really inconsistent (buy a box of factory match grade ammo to get a baseline).

Most important is your shooting form, trigger discipline and making sure you rifle is good to go (no loose scope mounts, etc.).

Once you know what factory match will do, you can play from there. I will say, however, that in an AR10, quality match ammo from Hornady, or similar, will not be far off most hand loading efforts. A lot of PRS type competitors have used factory match ammo with good results in semi-auto formats.

 

[arakboss]

Bought my first AR-10 a few months ago and just now finally got it dialed in. Shot it today with a factory load and 2 loads I put together. Not sure whether or not to be happy with the results since I'm not really sure what to expect from the rifle.

It's a PSA Gen 2 lower with a Gen 3 upper with 18" barrel. No fancy trigger or BCG. I have $700 into it. Built it as a hunting/SHTF/battle rifle. Initially put a cheap UTG 3x9 lighted reticle scope on it and couldn't get it to group at 100yds. I blamed it on the scope since the crosshairs were blurry and it was a cheap scope.

I replaced it with a Nikon P-Tactical 2x7 and took it to the range today.

It was a bit windy with maybe 7-10 mph cross breeze.

Got it sighted in and was happy with the initial group with factory Federal 150gr soft points.

View attachment 758729

Apparently didn't let the barrel cool down enough since the first group with the Hornday ELD-x 178gr and 42 grains of Varget were disappointing...

View attachment 758732

Let it cool for a bit and tried again and got 1 1/8" with the same load...

View attachment 758733

Then tried the other load, using Nosler Ballitstic Tip 165gr and 44 grains of Varget. Again, didn't let it cool down enough, apparently...

View attachment 758738

Let it cool down and tried again with much better results...

View attachment 758739

Still, the best group I can get is just over an inch at 100yds, using a mid-power scope. Not bad, but not sure if I should be expecting something better.

The rifle functioned flawlessly and the scope sight picture was excellent. I was surprised that factory 150gr loads were just as accurate as the 165gr and 178gr custom loads. Will probably try some 150gr loads with IMR 4895 next to see what happens.

If the Federal Soft Points continue to run tighter groups than your handloads, I would look at your process.

 

[HaveGun]

If the Federal Soft Points continue to run tighter groups then your handloads, I would look at your process.

How dare you insinuate that my reloads are somehow inferior! Those were the first high-powered rifle loads I have ever created so they are obviously perfect and beyond question!

Oh, wait... You might be on to something.

Seriously, though. They are the first batch of "conventional" rifle loads I've ever made. I've done some .45-70 Govt. black powder loads years ago for matches, but it's a whole different process using a drop tube, vegetable wad, and no crimp.

I did use a case trimmer on these and very, very little crimp. Not sure what I could have done differently, but I was just happy they cycled the action and ejected perfectly.

 

[arakboss]

How dare you insinuate that my reloads are somehow inferior! Those were the first high-powered rifle loads I have ever created so they are obviously perfect and beyond question!

Oh, wait... You might be on to something.

Seriously, though. They are the first batch of "conventional" rifle loads I've ever made. I've done some .45-70 Govt. black powder loads years ago for matches, but it's a whole different process using a drop tube, vegetable wad, and no crimp.

I did use a case trimmer on these and very, very little crimp. Not sure what I could have done differently, but I was just happy they cycled the action and ejected perfectly.

Seriously though I wasn't knocking this batch but if you found that hunting loads, like power-shok type, were continuously shooting as good or better than your "precision crafted" handloads, there could be something a little off in your process.

I would suggest doing 5 shot groups and when working up a load for a particular powder, do about 5 different grain weights of powder over 5 groups.

Let us know how the next batch turns out.