National Angled Vertical Grip on AR Pistol?

[bradsteen]

With the MPX you don't have the OAL to make the "firearm" argument like you can with a 10.5" AR pistol. So short version is if you're trying to be compliant with the law, don't use a foregrip marketed as "vertical". A3 tactical has some 45 degree AFGs worth trying out.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Fwiw one letter from atf referencing 90 degrees.

With the new developments today at DOJ, I think we are going to see a watershed change from atf going after responsible gun owners to atf going after actual criminals, mostly of the illegal immigrant violent gang variety.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Fwiw one letter from atf referencing 90 degrees.
View attachment 2033601
With the new developments today at DOJ, I think we are going to see a watershed change from atf going after responsible gun owners to atf going after actual criminals, mostly of the illegal immigrant violent gang variety.

Sorry, just cynical after seeing SCOTUS not take up two easy 2A cases this term.

 

[nwshooter3540]

https://www.atf.gov/file/97256/download#

Everyone should read this. Handguns and pistols are defined differently in this description, and it only describes adding a vertical grip to a handgun as illegal. It clearly defines a pistol as a two handed firearm and does not define it as illegal to have a vertical grip on a pistol.

 

[bradsteen]

https://www.atf.gov/file/97256/download#

Everyone should read this. Handguns and pistols are defined differently in this description, and it only describes adding a vertical grip to a handgun as illegal. It clearly defines a pistol as a two handed firearm and does not define it as illegal to have a vertical grip on a pistol.

Nope. It refers to "pistol" as having "a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand...".

 

[nwshooter3540]

It's very clear they don't have any statements talking about a pistol and a vertical grip being AOW. They keep going back to "handgun"and handgun having a very specific definition different and then a pistol. If this were the case, then every magazine well on an AR pistol would be considered a vertical grip.

 

[nwshooter3540]

Nope. It refers to "pistol" as having "a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand...".

View attachment 2033630

Read the definition closer it says under the bore that's talking about the hand guard.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Read the definition closer it says under the bore that's talking about the hand guard.

Below the line of the bore. Meaning, bore line is above main grip.

Edit. It categorically eliminates the weird stuff like this homemade monstrosity (what would be categorized as "Any Other Weapon")

 

[Knebel]

Well....FACTS matter. 90° off the barrel centerline is vertical. 86° ia not vertical. Its ageled. Twist it how you want but only 90° is a vertical angle.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Well....FACTS matter. 90° off the barrel centerline is vertical. 86° ia not vertical. Its ageled. Twist it how you want but only 90° is a vertical angle.

Didn't you know, it's a spectrum anywhere from "horizontal" and "vertical", depends on the ATF Agent in charge's mood after all, they aren't mathematicians

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Well....FACTS matter. 90° off the barrel centerline is vertical. 86° ia not vertical. Its ageled. Twist it how you want but only 90° is a vertical angle.

Strike industries angled foregrip is 86 degrees as I recall. This was probably mentioned somewhere above.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Other than the full auto feature, the above Steyr TMP is considered an "AOW" even though the foregrip is not exactly "vertical"

It's to do with the whole " designed to be fired by one hand" (and "concealable", which GCA 1968 seems to say "under 26") that the ATF gets their panties in a wad over.

On an AR "pistol" over 26", a foregrip should be OK? But under that OAL, and it gets murkier because yes there are those angled foregrips that has the ATF saying "is OK" but once again, the issue is "designed to be fired by one hand" thing.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

View attachment 2050603
Other than the full auto feature, the above Steyr TMP is considered an "AOW" even though the foregrip is not exactly "vertical"

It's to do with the whole " designed to be fired by one hand" (and "concealable", which GCA 1968 seems to say "under 26") that the ATF gets their panties in a wad over.

On an AR "pistol" over 26", a foregrip should be OK? But under that OAL, and it gets murkier because yes there are those angled foregrips that has the ATF saying "is OK" but once again, the issue is "designed to be fired by one hand" thing.

Yep murky waters as usual by atf. Many people rely on this letter re 90 degrees = vertical grip. 3rd paragraph is the important part. But as with braces in the past, despite the existence of such letters it may be meaningless in terms of ATF's interpretation.