Alas Babylon - what does it have to teach us

[sunuvaB]

I like One Second After, which lead me to Alas Babylon which I've now read (i.e listen to) too many times to count. I even convinced my wife to use it in a high school literature class. I see that there was a time when folks here thought it was an essential read. Is that still true? If so, what does it have to offer?

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[sunuvaB]

I'll start. (minor spoiler ahead) I think it offers a cautionary tale about using your time wisely. Our main character is given knowledge that a nuclear war is on the horizon. He doesn't take it seriously and a year passes. He doesn't really even think about what he might need until he's told that war is imminent, so his choices are nearly all wrong. The cause is irrelevant as every emergency comes down to the inability to acquire the materials and services needed to sustain life for a period of time ranging from inconvenient to fatal. He doesn't think in those terms so his prep get's an F. Still a great book.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Alas Babylon is a great if a bit dated read.
The writing itself is excellent.
As far as what it has to teach us....I think it shows just what could happen to a person and their perception of safety , needs vs. wants , how a situation may change what one thinks about defense / survival / killing of others...

Been awhile since I read it....might have to re-read it again.
Andy

 

[Stomper]

BOHICA…… Jumbo yah-yah.

 

[Dinglenutz]

I like One Second After, which lead me to Alas Babylon which I've now read (i.e listen to) too many times to count. I even convinced my wife to use it in a high school literature class. I see that there was a time when folks here thought it was an essential read. Is that still true? If so, what does it have to offer?

We had it as required reading in grade school. Don't wear jewelry stolen from corpses who died of being irradiated.

The series 'Jericho' was an entertaining look into a lawless society scenario as well.

 

[41mag]

there was a time when folks here thought it was an essential read. Is that still true?

Another of that era is "Lord of the Flies". Much of the fiction from then remains realistic enough as significant warning if not outright alarmist extreme if we don't tend to serious species issues.

 

[Dungannon]

Another of that era is "Lord of the Flies".

There was a real life example of boys marooned on an island for more than a year that was in the news in 1965. Found a couple links to that story, and it provides a welcome counterpoint to William Golding's book.

A real life Lord of the Flies: The 50-year-old story of a group of teens stranded on an island

Holly Williams reports on how a group of schoolboys worked together to survive 15 months stranded on an island.

www.cbsnews.com

The real Lord of the Flies: what happened when six boys were shipwrecked for 15 months

When a group of schoolboys were marooned on an island in 1965, it turned out very differently to William Golding’s bestseller, writes Rutger Bregman

www.theguardian.com

 

[sunuvaB]

Doubt this is very useful, but the novel correctly predicts who is most likely to respond to a sudden crisis. The retired executive is sure that the nuclear war he's warned about is a scam to "get more appropriation and cheat people on fixed incomes." Even after bombs have dropped, the banker can't grasp that things have fundamentally changed until his money is rejected as worthless paper. Nuclear war meant the end of their wealth, security and status in society so they denied it as long as possible. The convicts, on the other hand, react immediately and escape. Our main character is in the middle. He bounces between acceptance and denial. He reacts to the warning, but in meaningless ways, embarks upon a political career and increases his milk order.

My wife's family was sure in 2008 that there was no danger because they'd heard no warnings from government or corporate officials. These officials, of corse, were the slowest off the mark (see/read Too Big to Fail). My wife's family lost millions. On the other hand, two lowly, just starting out investors believed what they were told and saw it as opportunity and made millions (read/see The Big Short).

I guess, there is a valuable lesson, that being that when TSHTF, the people seeking to take food will likely act more quickly than those seeking to keep it.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I read a great deal, I will put this on my list and thanks.

 

[cigars]

Some of us didn't worry much about toilet paper. Some did.

 

[OldBroad44]

I think how it would play out if a small group of children were isolated would depend very much on the details of exactly which kids and what they knew.

When I was a kiddie, children ran loose in neighborhoods and were mostly socialized by other kids. Play, games, sports were all organized by the kids. By the time I went to first grade, I had learned to ride a bike as well as play baseball, all from other kids. Influence of parents was largely on those below about four. Kids sometimes played by age groups but often also in very mixed age groups. Such kids basically governed themselves most of every day. I'm 75, and lived in four different states during grade school (Florida, Alabama, Coloado , Massachusetts) Always, however, in suburban neighborhoods with lots of kids. There were also places to play. Vacant lots, swampy areas too wet for building, woods along RRs, school grounds after hours.

 

[CountryGent]

One of my absolute favorites in the genre. I've read Alas, Babylon many times. What to learn? As best as I can muster with wife and children wandering around, the silly friend talking to me on little computer, et al.

Off the top of my head, in a scatterbrained mode at the present:

• How things can change in a blink of an eye.
• Water, water, water. I can't believe how many "preppers" (ugh, that word) don't get the importance. It is referenced in the book.
• Barter as a real factor. I'll have to admit I largely ignored this in my own travels, but have to concede it is a real factor.
• How people react radically different in a disaster, as some have mentioned, such as:
  • The main character trying to get a grasp on it all and being the anchor.
  • The cynical doctor, who had a screwed up life thanks to his POS ex-wife, who throws himself into taking care of business.
  • The brother of the main character who does his duty even though it meant his demise via vaporization.
  • The retired Admiral who is a radio type and uses his skills.
  • The banker who doesn't get it until, well, he, eh, opts out.
  • The resourcefulness of one his African-American neighbor in the midst of it all.
  • The power of faith of the African-American preacher. (Even those of us that don't take much stock in such know the unifying effect of said.)
  • The Latina ex-girlfriend that hordes consumer goods and can't grasp that this war is very different.
  • Her obnoxious brother who runs a grocery story and gouges everyone.
  • The librarian with her quiet, but continued efforts to normalcy.
• The bonds of family.
• How the criminal class will take full advantage of the situation.
• How government will be totally and utterly worthless in most serious events.
• Racial prejudice is a subtext, which is unsurprising considering this was written in the Jim Crow south. But, let us not kid ourselves, it is still present.

Anyway, I'm sure that is much more. Just "off the cuff", as they say. (Fun fact; the main character salutes the flag, with "49 stars". The book was written after Alaska achieved statehood, but right before Hawaiʻi did the same. )

 

[sunuvaB]

Racial prejudice is a subtext, which is unsurprising considering this was written in the Jim Crow south

That was one of the things I loved about the book. Segregation and prejudice took a back seat to survival. The father in law goes from talking about dingies and darkies to becoming an underling and eventual partner with his black neighbors. The author makes the point directly when he says how quickly the signs designating color became ridiculous relics.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I think how it would play out if a small group of children were isolated would depend very much on the details of exactly which kids and what they knew.

When I was a kiddie, children ran loose in neighborhoods and were mostly socialized by other kids. Play, games, sports were all organized by the kids. By the time I went to first grade, I had learned to ride a bike as well as play baseball, all from other kids. Influence of parents was largely on those below about four. Kids sometimes played by age groups but often also in very mixed age groups. Such kids basically governed themselves most of every day. I'm 75, and lived in four different states during grade school (Florida, Alabama, Coloado , Massachusetts) Always, however, in suburban neighborhoods with lots of kids. There were also places to play. Vacant lots, swampy areas too wet for building, woods along RRs, school grounds after hours.

Big difference was when you were a kid it was before radio or TV was invented.


A sense of humor is important in a survival situation.

 

[CountryGent]

That was one of the things I loved about the book. Segregation and prejudice took a back seat to survival. The father in law goes from talking about dingies and darkies to becoming an underling and eventual partner with his black neighbors. The author makes the point directly when he says how quickly the signs designating color became ridiculous relics.

I remembered that too. The quote from the book, which now that dinner is done, I just looked up:

"There were two drinking fountains in Marines Park, one marked 'White Only,' the other 'Colored Only.' Since neither worked, the signs were meaningless."​

​

The family was discussing this thread at dinner and I mentioned that Hispanic characters, to the best of my recollection, were all characterized as being pretty despicable. My wife asked something about how I felt about that. I shook my head and said something like "Nothing really, beyond curiosity as to the author's perspective. There are bad apples among us all. And the ex-girlfriend character reminded of a woman I was involved with long ago."

Then the discourse wildly diverged onto the etymology of the word "mushroom", courtesy of the little people, because the dish the wife made contained said.

Honk-honk.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I gotta read the book...

 

[CountryGent]

I gotta read the book...

I do believe you will enjoy it very much, friend. It is a classic in the genre. It is available in print and various places on the Intratubes.

Parenthetically, there is a Playhouse 90 episode based upon said. Despite all of my efforts, I've never been able to dig up a copy, on or offline. Someday.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I haven't read it so what do you guys think you got more of, a look at human nature or something more in what a crisis looks like?

 

[saxon]

I like One Second After, which lead me to Alas Babylon which I've now read (i.e listen to) too many times to count. I even convinced my wife to use it in a high school literature class. I see that there was a time when folks here thought it was an essential read. Is that still true? If so, what does it have to offer?

#1 have a plan, bug in bug out.
#2 you only have yourself to trust
#3 when you do trust others, it had better be mutual.
#4 water, life straw etc
#5 you will have to kill or be killed

 

[OldBroad44]

Big difference was when you were a kid it was before radio or TV was invented

naw. We got a black and white tv in our home about 1952 (corrected from 1942) when I was 6. Don't remember how many channels, but three or less. The plot was always the same. the brave smart heroic man, usually a cowboy, rescues and wins the stupid incompetent cowardly but beautiful female. After a few months I rejected tv completely and didn't watch any again until 1958, when the family lived in Japan. It was the same old American cowboy movies with the heroic men and useless women, but the voices were dubbed in Japanese, which made it all hilarious.