Adventures in Flying with a Gun

[NWGlockgal]

"it was a brand new Alien Wear that they were all up in a twist about".

Well, there's your problem right there. If it had been an Illegal Alien Wear computer, they would have welcomed it with open arms and given it sanctuary status.

 

[DLS]

I have to disagree with a couple of the assertions here. Having the TSA web page printed out does have weight, and it's the fact that some agents have their own (erroneous) ideas of the regulations that gives it this weight. It's the official proclamation of the current regulations and is all you need to kick the decision to a higher level agent. So, I don't give a hoot what the agent thinks are the rules. If you know what they are and are calm and firm you will get treated accordingly

It does not matter how mad a TSA agent gets, or how adamant he is about his interpretation is correct. Possessing that paper gives you standing to politely ask for a supervisor. And they will honor the request. One thing they are heavily trained in is to bring in the boss as soon as things look to becoming a problem. To ignore a passengers request for a supervisor can get the agent in deep trouble with his superiors.

As soon as the agent indicates an "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" or a flat out "no" just say, "Okay … would you please page your supervisor". I don't wait for them to get frustrated or become angry. No drama, no macho, no nothing other than a simple polite request. The supervisor will be there within 5 minutes (TSA guideline) and the problem will be solved. Thousands of people fly with guns every single day in America, and they do it without drama or hassle.

Just make sure you know the regs and have abided by them. Don't rely on the fact that some TSA or counter agents let your loaded magazines through (just an example since that's been mentioned in this thread). The fact they made a mistake in your favor does not translate into that being the regulations or that they same error will be made at another site.

By the way, who gives a rip if the TSA drone gets mad. I've had run ins with them over empty water bottles, laptops, prescription medications etc. In fact I've had far more problems with these items than guns. Each time the TSA agent decided to be a jerk or tries to enforce "his" version of the regulations, yep politely ask for a supervisor. Just don't be a dick yourself. The situation will be resolved quickly and with an apology for any hardship. Again, I'm assuming the traveler knows the regs and is abiding by them.

While the TSA is utterly inept in many areas of their domain … their regulations and the website (and other literature) is a well done, top notch resource for the traveler. The regulations are straightforward (I'm not saying I agree with them in total here) and well described, and the website is current. They update it within hours of approval of new regulations and there is an updated info banner on the main page when this happens but this now happens rarely. The bugs have been pretty much ironed out years ago.

When you hear of travelers being pulled to other rooms, detained etc. there is always more to the story than hits social media. Believe me, the paperwork alone when this is done is a great disincentive for agents to do this type of thing. Remain calm, firm and polite and you will be fine. If not, remember the whole area where they work is under video surveillance and you will have a record of any untoward treatment, but if you do the prior it's so very unlikely to happen that it's probably not worth the time I took to type this out.

 

[P7M13]

I've only flown from Portland to Las Vegas with handguns. In Portland you have to go to a special area, open the suitcase and have it searched and swabbed for explosives. In Las Vegas they throw it on their conveyor belt, tell you to stand around for 15 minutes and it TSA doesn't show up you are free to go. So much more low keyed there.
The last time I left Portland the TSA guy was nice. The agent had messed up how she did things and he corrected it and didn't have an issue. Complimented my gun case, wanted to know what gun I shot, went into his history of gun ownership. It was a nice change from the woman before who obviously was a gun hater.

I have met ticket agents at Delta and American who are definitely displeased when they hear, "I am declaring a firearm." I like rubbing their nose in it.
Met a bunch of different guys and women at the PDX TSA oversized station, and never anyone unpleasant or even remotely miffed.
I've been swabbed too many times to count - always worried I didn't wash off any gunpowder residue from reloading.... My case has tested positive on the outside a few times, which always resulted in an "open it, stand back, let them lift out and inspect." Always GTG after that.

I fly with a Rifle and two pistols all the time, hardly ever have had any issue's other then the amounts of ammo carried, which is the max limit allowed! Only once did I ever have an issue, and it wasn't even gun related, it was my laptop, it was a brand new Alien Wear that they were all up in a twist about, made me turn it on and prove it was actually a computer and not something else!
My buddy gets all sorts of crap when ever he flies, he has a prosthetic arm, and they make him remove it for extra special inspection every time! You would think the X-Ray would "See" every thing! I find it humiliating that they treat amputees and other wounded Vets so poorly, and they get a pass every time!

I've not witnessed any amputees in line. I fly Pre-Check, makes it so much easier. I'm often flying with 2 or 3 laptops at any time, and as a precaution, remove the 2nd & 3rd and put into tubs.
"Sir, you don't have to do that."
"My experience is at every airport, I do, so I'm doing as a precaution."
About a month ago, they almost got medieval on me for insisting I pull out the multiple laptops. When I pulled out the 2nd extra, she backed off.

 

[WillametteWill]

For the past five years I have averaged about 30+ flights each year with firearms. Many great posts above. I'll add what I have learned:

TSA dislikes (per numerous conversations):

• Flimsy cases with one lock where they can easily pull the case open and the gun falls out
• Putting TSA locks on the actual gun case (you can use TSA locks on the exterior suitcase and then real locks on the hard case inside)
• Not declaring the firearm with the airline ticket counter
• Jerks

Dealing with the airlines:

• Avoid Delta (my last suitcase must have had 30 monster zip ties appearing to seal it...they all just fell off)
• Fly Southwest...super easy to deal with
• Be ready to fill out the declaration card (know you flight numbers, PRN# (usually 6 digit code)
• I know sometimes the loaded magazine thing is ok...but sometimes it's not so just keep your ammo in a box (inside the locked box)
• Have the key for the non-TSA lock securing your firearm handy if needed (NEVER in you suitcase, only with you carryon)
• Uninformed & new employees may think you need TSA locks on your case, as noted by others, not true. I'm always polite but firm and have them ask for help, making it a kind learning experience so the next traveler behind me will have a good experience.

Other tidbits I have found helpful and items polite TSA folks have advised:

• Chain you gun box (if you are transporting handguns inside your suitcase) using a thin, steel cable to the suitcase. Theftproof? no, but it doesn't hurt.
• Consider using one of the million gun cable locks you have lying around to lock the firearm as a secondary device. (I personally want to do everything I can so somebody is not using one of my guns to shoot up an airport.)
• I have a clear plastic sleeve taped to my gun boxes so I can slide my declaration card into it once filled out. (Airline and TSA folks recognize you know what you are doing with this one!)
• Use serious boxes, Pelican, SKB, etc. that are very sturdy.
• Get two or three keyed alike locks and use at least two on each box. You will make TSA friends quickly if you do this.
• Have spare foam to keep stuff from rattling around (I also have custom inserts depending on what I flying with)
• Recognize different airports have completely different policies on how they do business:

San Jose, CA seems to be asking for your key after you get thought security every time now
San Francisco, CA had me open my case in front of a large crowd and did not seem very confident
PDX rocks!!! Awesome folks and super easy with SWA and Alaska, American is not too bad either. Delta is nice but stupid rules.
BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR DESTINATION (i.e. New Jersey, New York and Chicago especially) This could be a whole other thread. CA and other states with mag capacity regulations.
Gun friendly states generally have gun friendly airports (for transporting)​

• As others have stated, read and consider printing TSA and airline policies (Max ammo amounts differ)

Whew, sorry for the long winded post but hope it helps someone. Of course, not legal, accounting or engineering advice.

 

[Ura-Ki]

^^^ditto on the ammo limits^^^
I find that the TSA limits isn't always cool with the airlines, some have their own limits, some based on weight alone, so do your homework on the airline and not just follow TSA on this one! Example, I had the TSA limits on the number of rounds, but the airline had a weight limit which my count exceeded, a friendly chat with the airline operator was able to clear that up, but they told me this was a courtesy they would extend me only once!
I usually prefer Alaska airlines, but will use others if forced to, or Alaska dosnt service my destination, so far that hasn't been the case!
Don't know if any of you have ever flown chartered flights, but it is actually better with TSA then the old Customes counter and unique requirements, just note, some of the private charter operators may have their own policies, up to and including zero firearms and ammo, so again, do your homework! I do a lot( and I do mean ALOT) of charterd flights, and have found who treats me well, and who are total jerks, it's nice to be treated like a person when flying, and it's usually a lot faster, takes you places the airlines don't, and in far more comfort then the flying soup cans the airlines call airplanes these days!

 

[Caveman Jim]

I have flown with my gun for years and have not had any problems at all untill I flew out of Norfolk in May returning to Sea-Tac.
We were slated to fly to JFK & connect to a flight home.
Well the whole NE had a huge storm blow through so the flight was canceled & was told another flight to New Jersey was soon to leave and if we wanted it we had 12 mins to get to the gate on the other side of the airport!!! We made it with the help of one of those annoying carts you see shuttling elderly & disabled people. They loaded us on board was almost ready to close the door & they canceled that flight too!!!
So long story short we had to stay in a motel with a promise to have a flight out at 6 am. That flight was also cancelled at 4 am!!!!!
Noon we got on a flight to Philly and got to Sea-tac about 8 pm, go to the baggage claim & no bags!!!!!!
Wife's bag is in New Jersey & mine in JFK!!!!!
Said they would deliver them both to our home, waited & finally got a voicemail (were at hospital with new grandbaby that was born as we touched down in Seattle)
said they would not deliver due to my bag had a gun in it!!!!!

Never again will we fly with AA!!!

 

[Diamondback]

Which airline, Caveman, and did they finally make right or do they need Naming and Shaming? Part of the problem is Nazi Jermany doesn't comply with FOPA, so taking possession of your bags even on layover is "Illegal Possession of Firearm"...

 

[L84Cabo]

Gun check-in policies are usually set by the airport and not the airlines...but there can be some variation at the counters.

You're supposed to use regular locks that only YOU can access. You're specifically NOT supposed to use TSA locks. This is likely the reason they were encouraging you to swap yours out. You're actually lucky they let you pass with these. Here's the relevant wording from the TSA site:

Transporting Firearms and Ammunition

Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations.

Cable locks...You spent the money on a Pelican case. Spend a little coin on some decent non TSA locks. You'll save yourself the headache next time you fly.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Which airline, Caveman, and did they finally make right or do they need Naming and Shaming? Part of the problem is Nazi Jermany doesn't comply with FOPA, so taking possession of your bags even on layover is "Illegal Possession of Firearm"...

American Airlines.
They wouldn't even pony up for the hotel....
I have been in contact with CS and shaming them to friends & family. Worst CS in the Airline industry.

 

[MilitantBEEMER]

I recently flew from Eugene to Missoula and the drove to Great Falls for my flight back. Eugene easy to check and picked up bag at carousel in Missoula. Great Falls I went to counter and told the nice lady that I wanted to check a gun, she gave me this long form to fill out. After I completed the form she looked it over, gave me a copy and told me to hand to TSA and let them know I was carrying on the plane I calmly explained to her that I was not carrying and only checking. She was embarrassed but we sorted it out and I picked up my checked bag at the Eugene carousel.

 

[P7M13]

Cable locks...You spent the money on a Pelican case. Spend a little coin on some decent non TSA locks. You'll save yourself the headache next time you fly.

Note that many quality lock shackle diameters are too fat for Pelican / Boyds / other cases. I have ~8 different locks for this reason.
I much prefer the 4 digit Master combo locks to keyed ones -- thought I lost my keys once, they had fallen into a pocket in my backpack that I didn't know existed.

 

[EPS]

Ammo UNDER the foam and a peace of hard plastic separate the ammo from the gun

 

[Ligito]

In the 60's, I flew from Fairbanks to Seattle, with a Browning .380 and ammo in a 35mm slide box.
I hitchhiked in a Franz bakery truck to Portland, while riding in the door well.
The trip was friendly until I showed the driver my new .380.
He didn't speak to me for the rest of the trip and let me off in the middle of the Burnside bridge.

 

[NWGlockgal]

Ammo UNDER the foam and a peace of hard plastic separate the ammo from the gun

I always put the ammo in it's original boxes inside an inexpensive see through plastic box and toss it in my suitcase. I always put two
guns (separated by foam) and the mags in the gun case so no extra room in it for ammo.