594 Washington law question

[notazombie]

Hey, any of you geezers remember when you could buy firearms at the hardware store and didn't need a law degree to decipher who was allowed to borrow it, then could sell it without permission and a fine, I mean transfer fee? Those were dangerous times.

 

[jbett98]

I remember those days, and you could also buy Colt Pythons for under $200.00.

 

[rdb241]

Back in the 30's, Sears and Roebuck would ship a Tommy gun to your front door with no questions.

 

[Alexx1401]

What if we stop all the hand wringing and teeth gnashing about some nonsense, grow a pair, act free and do wtf we want

Who wants to be the test case for that? You volunteering? I personally don't "like or agree" with a lot of the laws. Especially when it comes to guns. I have gotten old and wise enough to not feel like trying to change them by just ignoring them. Figuring I will just be tough if arrested for violating one. Just my opinion that's a poor way to try to change them. Now if others want to do so I guess they can hope I end up on the jury if it goes to trial. I do believe VERY much in jury nullification.

 

[Alexx1401]

I wholeheartedly agree, however violating 594 is a felony which means no guns, so although my friend likes to push the law to the limit, he also respects what a felony could mean if his girlfriend potentially used the firearm in self defense at her home and it later was determined that he was in violation of 594 because she possessed the firearm at that time.

Your friend want the super simple answer for that one? It's dead simple. When I met the Wife she owned no guns. Was living with her 2 young children. I bought a .22 and taught her to shoot. I then took her downtown and paid for her to get her CPL. I then took her to a little shop that had a nice used 5 shot .38 and paid for it while she bought it. It was now her gun. If your friend wants his girl to have a gun she should buy one. If money is tight these Sccy pistols mentioned here would be great for her. They run around $200 out the door. Can't afford that? Many FFL's will do a transfer for around $25. Transfer one of his guns to her to be left there at her place. This does not need to be nearly as hard as many seem to want to make it. If he trusts her enough to leave one of his guns at her house just put one in her name.

 

[slimmer13]

Who wants to be the test case for that? You volunteering? I personally don't "like or agree" with a lot of the laws. Especially when it comes to guns. I have gotten old and wise enough to not feel like trying to change them by just ignoring them. Figuring I will just be tough if arrested for violating one. Just my opinion that's a poor way to try to change them. Now if others want to do so I guess they can hope I end up on the jury if it goes to trial. I do believe VERY much in jury nullification.

Unless your selling guns to the cartel, or you sell a gun that was used in a major crime, this isn't even being enforced. In close to three years, I think theres been, what, one prosecution for someone who sold a gun used in a murder? I don't think any LEO or prosecutor would hassle you for leaving a gun at a girlfriends house. YMMV, and it's up to each of us to decide what we are willing to put up with and the risk/reward.

 

[Alexx1401]

Unless your selling guns to the cartel, or you sell a gun that was used in a major crime, this isn't even being enforced. In close to three years, I think theres been, what, one prosecution for someone who sold a gun used in a murder? I don't think any LEO or prosecutor would hassle you for leaving a gun at a girlfriends house. YMMV, and it's up to each of us to decide what we are willing to put up with and the risk/reward.

Yes chances are I could go on selling guns I don't want any more like I always have. All my life I would take a shine to something and sell something else to pay. Even long ago though I did write up a bill of sale and keep a copy. Just in case years or decades down the road the gun ends up at a crime and I happen to be the last person on paper for it. So I "could" keep selling, have a coupe guns right now I would LOVE to be able to get my cash out of since I have others I want. So am I going to sell one illegally? So that a gun I could sell for say $400 illegally would net me maybe $250 if I sold it to a shop? No. Not happening for me. Are chances super high I could get away with it? Of course. If I was unlucky enough to get caught would the $150 seem like a bargain when I was hiring some lawyer? No. Or go through the hassle of making a buyer meet me at the shop and do the transfer and maybe get another $100 out of the gun? Again no, not for me. I did sell one .380 I had to a local shop. They let me use it as a trade in on something I was ordering from them. They gave me $200 in credit for a gun I would have asked $300 for and would have let go for $250 if no one bit. So to me it was worth it. I don't like it, but I don't feel like being a test case either. Again this if for me. My advice is worth exactly what people are paying for it.

 

[rdb241]

Unless your selling guns to the cartel, or you sell a gun that was used in a major crime, this isn't even being enforced. In close to three years, I think theres been, what, one prosecution for someone who sold a gun used in a murder? I don't think any LEO or prosecutor would hassle you for leaving a gun at a girlfriends house. YMMV, and it's up to each of us to decide what we are willing to put up with and the risk/reward.

Right after I-594 was passed. The Lewis County Sheriff held a press conference and said that he nor his deputies will enforce I-594. Packwood and the swap meet are in Lewis county. I came home with a nice cash and carry toy last Memorial Day.

 

[IronMonster]

@No_Regrets could probably give you some insight into this but my take is simple. If neither one of the parties is a criminal nor engaged in any felonious activity it's a non-issue. There is about a 99.99999% You will not be prosecuted for a I-594 violation unless you have committed a companion crime and they just want to add a charge.

You should follow the intent of the law. Killing yourself over the details is pointless. It would take a court, judge and several attornies to decide what constitutes a transfer.... All we can do is blow smoke and speculate.

 

[11Charlie]

I would never leave my gun anywhere other than on my person or in my personal safe. Problem solved!

 

[jbett98]

Your friend could marry her. Problem solved.

 

[American123]

Hey, any of you geezers remember when you could buy firearms at the hardware store and didn't need a law degree to decipher who was allowed to borrow it, then could sell it without permission and a fine, I mean transfer fee? Those were dangerous times.

My grandpa had rifles that he bought through the mail back when they could be shipped directly to your house.

 

[American123]

@No_Regrets could probably give you some insight into this but my take is simple. If neither one of the parties is a criminal nor engaged in any felonious activity it's a non-issue. There is about a 99.99999% You will not be prosecuted for a I-594 violation unless you have committed a companion crime and they just want to add a charge.

You should follow the intent of the law. Killing yourself over the details is pointless. It would take a court, judge and several attornies to decide what constitutes a transfer.... All we can do is blow smoke and speculate.

Thank you,

Having a casual discussion of the law definitely doesn't hurt though. I know obviously my friend may be splitting hairs on this, but the point is to understand the law so that it can best be followed, and not let it control him more than it legally does. A lot of people let fear of breaking a law keep them from the freedoms we still have left. I definitely appreciate knowing the law the best also so I know what rights I have to operate within the law and not let it control me more than it is written to.

 

[Alexx1401]

Hey, any of you geezers remember when you could buy firearms at the hardware store and didn't need a law degree to decipher who was allowed to borrow it, then could sell it without permission and a fine, I mean transfer fee? Those were dangerous times.

I remember mail order guns. Saw my Father do this a couple times. One of the few area's where we somehow won one was ammo. I also remember having to fill out a "log" for all handgun ammo. Could not buy it yourself. Had to use an FFL if you did not want to buy it from a dealer. Now of course decades later some places are trying to go back to the way it was with that.

 

[Hardcore46]

That is an interesting thought process. Consider this:

If my friend parks his car in her garage does she "possess" his car?

Or is his car simply sitting in her garage? Clearly she doesn't own the car, and if he parked his car in her garage and walked to the store, obviously she wouldn't lawfully own his car just because he parked it in her garage even if he did leave not in his car.

The location of his car doesn't dictate who owns it. Therefore, with that process in mind, if my friend leaves his gun at her apartment, that doesn't make her the de facto owner, she never had it transferred to her through an FFL which would be required by law if it was being transferred to her, but it isn't being transferred to her, it is still his, he is simply storing his gun at her place.

Thoughts?

The legal doctrine is called "constructive possession". Meaning that if you are in control of the house/car/backpack, and some form of contraband is inside, then you are in possession of it. Of course the prosecutor would have to convince the jury that you had knowledge of said contraband.
One possible preventive measure might be to install a locking gun vault, and not provide the key/combo to the girlfriend.
It is a gray area that could bite you if you come to the attention of an aggressive, anti-freedom prosecutor.