44 (.429) reloading, Special or Magnum cases?

[orygun]

I'm a long time reloader, but am a brand new at loading and tailoring ammo for a 44 Mag revolver. It's a 4" S&W Model 69 5 shot Combat Magnum and it's probably quite a bit lighter than the 7 shot 686+ I had. Needless to say, recoil is fierce and I'm looking to find the balance of power vs. recoil that works for me.
I've not chrono-ed any loads thru the gun yet and don't have a good reference point, but the listed velocities of the 44 Mag and 44 Spec. ammo I've got lead me to believe that I'm looking for something that splits the difference.
Keep in mind that I've not shot any of the 44 Special loads yet, but a 400 fps reduction in posted velocity with a 40gr lighter bullet is probably more than needed to reduce recoil to a tolerable level.
Looking at a few manuals it looks like 900-ish fps is about all they show for a 240gr JHP in a Special case and I'm thinking I'll want something more like 1000fps. I don't have any loads for the Special case that push past normal 44 Special pressure limit so before I start, I'm asking questions.

240gr JHP at 1000 or 300gr LSWC at 900, which case would you use?

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[DizzyJ]

Following.

 

[jordanka16]

If you are going to load to higher pressure than a 44 special, use a 44 magnum case, you wouldn't want to load one of those in a 44 special someday.

Beyond that I use the longer case whenever possible, I get better accuracy in general. I've loaded a lot of 38 loads in 357 cases.

 

[ron]

I download for my 629 3 inch. 180 grain bullets will kick less than 240 grain.
For magnum loads I use H110 at the starting charge or about 1 grain less.
My light weight target load is 240 SWC Laser Cast bullet with 7 grains of Unique.
I load everything on 44 magnum cases. Shorter 44 special cases will be less acurate
and leave residue in the cylinder obstructing chambering the longer magnum case.
I have been reloading for the 44 magnum for 38 years. Don't shoot many 44 mag
much anymore. I load full power 300 grain gas checks with Blue Dot for bear
protection.

 

[Certaindeaf]

You're looking for what's called a "mid-range" load. There's a whole lot of data available for those and has been for a very long time.
I'd not bother with 240gr jh/sp since close to 100% of those will not even expand at revolver wrecking velocities even if shot into a moose shoulder. Use lead SWC's of one kind or another depending on what animal or target you are intending to shoot.

 

[The Heretic]

When I reload it is usually for lower power loads than I can buy commercially, or with specially bullets that I can't find easily in commercial loads.

So most of my .44 loads use .44 Special.

I have shot a number of different commercial loads in my 329 PD which is hard on your hands regardless what you shoot in it. I have shot 240 grain .44 Special at 900 fps and it is still a handful, as are the 200 grain, 185 grain and 165 grain Hornady defensive loads - but the recoil does get a bit lighter.

In a heavy steel revolver, 200 grain hard cast with gas checks over about 6 grains of Bullseye with dacron on top of the powder is a tame load that was very accurate for me. I still have some but I have not yet tried them in my 329

YMMV

 

[Twodogs]

I run all loads in 44 mag cases, a 240gr cast bullet with W-231 is easy to shoot through my buddies 4 5/8" blackhawk and very quite out of my suppressed carbine.

 

[osprey]

I have worked on subsonic loadings for a 16" carbine in 44 mag. The most consistent results I got were with 2400 powder. I get 1050 fps with 12.7 gr using a 300 gr WFN cast bullet. With that short of a barrel 2400 will probably result in too much unburned powder, so I probably would look towards a bit faster powder like lil gun, aa#7 or blue dot.

 

[Argonaut]

I am developing 44 special level loads with 44 mag cases using Trail Boss powder and magnum primers. I don't like having to mix Magnum and special cases. Trail Boss is a bulky powder that does a good job of filling the case without developing Magnum velocities and recoil. There load tables have information using Magnum cases.

 

[Twodogs]

I loaded some 320 gr bullets with 9.0 grs of W-231 and they were supersonic out of my 18" barrel, need to hook up the chono and try 8.5 grs.

 

[osprey]

Trail boss Petered out on me well short of my 1050 fps goal and that was in a 16" barrel. I couldn't fit enough of those little Cheerios in the case. I think the most I got was around 900 fps. You don't want to compress them either as it changes the burn rate. This is with a 300 gr coated cast pill.

 

[orygun]

So most of my .44 loads use .44 Special.

I have shot a number of different commercial loads in my 329 PD which is hard on your hands regardless what you shoot in it. I have shot 240 grain .44 Special at 900 fps and it is still a handful, as are the 200 grain, 185 grain and 165 grain Hornady defensive loads - but the recoil does get a bit lighter.

I remember you talking about your revolver and hoped you would chime in. Thanks.

 

[orygun]

Looks like the Magnum cases are the common consensus, which confirms my earlier thoughts. Thanks for your opinions.

 

[KKG]

I guess I will put in my two cents worth. I have been reloading the .44 Special and Magnum cartridges for 40+ years. In my opinion, it's best if you load Special loads in Special cases for maximum accuracy. Same with the Magnum loads in Magnum cases. NEVER try to push the Special cases to Magnum levels. That way I "Know" when I see a Special case that it's a Special load. I do load a few different Bullets in the Special, while the Magnum loadings are ALL Jacketed and pretty Heavy. I do have a couple of .44 Special revolvers and several .44 Magnums. I use different colored MTM boxes for the Two calibers. That also helps to keep me on track.

 

[Member 5605]

Easier to load down a .44Mag than risk going beyond max in a .44 special.

$.02

 

[orygun]

Before buying dies I rounded up a selection of ammo to shoot, test and generate some brass. Previously I'd shot a box of 300gr cast from a small reloader without chronoing any. I believe he told me they were 22gr of H110 and ran 1300fps out of a 7.5" Ruger. They were stout. More than I want and the reason for this thread.

What I came up with;
Ammo / Advertised fps / Tested fps (ave)
1) Federal 240gr JHP 44 Mag / 1230 / 1275
2) HSM 240gr JHP Sierra Pro Hunter 44 Mag / XX / 1099
3) HSM 200gr RNFP (lead) 44 Mag Cowboy Action load / 975 / 870
4) Fiocchi 200gr SJHP 44 Sp / 900 / 862
5) Hornady Critical Defense 165gr FTX 44 Sp / 900 / 1023

I use a Shooting Chrony and set it up to be about 12' from the muzzle. HSM does not show velocities for the Pro Hunter ammo on their website. I find it interesting that ammo listed for hunting tests nearly 200fps slower than normal magnum ammo of the same bullet weight. All other advertised velocities were taken from the manufacturer's site or from the label.
I wanted to set the chrono up Friday, but it was wet and foggy when I was ready to shoot, so I decided to pop off a few rounds of each just to see what I'd spent all of my money on, then head home. I shot five rounds of each, then shot another 10 of the Pro Hunter because it seemed like it's the "level" I'm after, no matter what the chrono was going to say. It's stout, without recoiling so sharply as to tear the skin in the web of my hand, like a half a box of the Federal will, and I can shoot it reasonably well double action. I actually guessed it to be about 1100fps, basing my opinion on what the other's advertised velocities are and how they recoiled.
Better weather yesterday allowed me to set up and shoot! I started with the Federal and worked my way down. The Cowboy load and the 2 44 Specials are soft enough shooting that I can let others that aren't used to heavy recoil shoot this gun and enjoy it, but I doubt that I'll be loading up many rounds in this velocity range. I did burn thru the Cowboy loads shooting up a couple of 16oz cans. I see why many shooters like a 44 cal bullet in the 8-900fps range, it's easy to shoot, but I want a bit more than that.
One round of the Fiocchi required a second primer strike, but was very accurate in this gun.
Just because I now have them, I filled the cylinder with the Critical Defense for the trip home. I think I will save them for "city duty".

To the point of the thread, Magnum cases ARE what I need. I'd need to stretch the Special pretty far to get where I want.

With a Sierra 240gr JHP and some Unique, I think I can duplicate the HSM Pro Hunter load easily. That oughtta do it.
I did find that taking the edge off of the recoil really helped me shoot this gun accurately, and that always makes shooting more fun. Now I don't regret buying this gun instead of another 686+.

 

[41mag]

In my opinion, it's best if you load Special loads in Special cases for maximum accuracy.

that's been my experience as well; I'm sure the muzzle flash and anticipation thereof for hot 44 mags or out of sub 4" barrels, produces a flinch affecting my POI.

The best group I ever shot in 44 anything was in a SAA Colt moderate load, 5 leaf cluster offhand IN the X-ring at 40'.

Even this past season, my best accuracy at bowling pins, was from 8 3/8" 629 with moderate 44 special load & 200 grain SWC.

 

[41mag]

NEVER try to push the Special cases to Magnum levels. That way I "Know" when I see a Special case that it's a Special load.

agree & use the same principle in my own loads

 

[Colts4me]

I tend to build a round for for what I want to shoot, target rounds or defense rounds or hunting rounds. With 44s in magnum I only use jacketed bullets over 1,000 fps and lead below a 1,000 fps. Above all it has to be an accurate load in the gun it's built for and every gun has its most accurate loads. Only time I use jackets below 1,000 fps is for my 300 grain load for my suppressed Ruger M77 44, jackets shoot cleaner in it.

My 44 special loads are lead, no sense wasting jacketed bullets at low velocity that won't expand reliably. I use the Keith style 240 with a full charge of unique and it shoots great in my Colts. Load is fun to shoot in the SAA but I also like 231 in my target loads because it's more accurate and burns cleaner.

44mag loads I save the full house loads for hunting and use the same load for the Smith as I do for the Winchester. I load a factory duplication round to hunt with but find more accurate rounds can be built but have less power. The old Lyman manual gives factory dupe loads that I start with the adjust to get what I want to build. My best rounds have either 2400 as a powder or 296 (h110 is same thing).

 

[orygun]

I've never used 2400. I've heard it's dirty. Can you comment on that @Colts4me ?