44 (.429) reloading, Special or Magnum cases?

[P7M13]

When I reload it is usually for lower power loads than I can buy commercially, or with specially bullets that I can't find easily in commercial loads.

So most of my .44 loads use .44 Special.

I have shot a number of different commercial loads in my 329 PD which is hard on your hands regardless what you shoot in it. I have shot 240 grain .44 Special at 900 fps and it is still a handful, as are the 200 grain, 185 grain and 165 grain Hornady defensive loads - but the recoil does get a bit lighter.

In a heavy steel revolver, 200 grain hard cast with gas checks over about 6 grains of Bullseye with dacron on top of the powder is a tame load that was very accurate for me. I still have some but I have not yet tried them in my 329

YMMV

What does the Dacron do for you? Keep the powder from settling?

 

[orygun]

What does the Dacron do for you? Keep the powder from settling?

I think you quoted the wrong post.
I've never done it, but yes, Dacron is to keep the powder at the base of the case instead of letting a small charge lay on the wall (floor) and not ignite reliably.

 

[Colts4me]

I've never used 2400. I've heard it's dirty. Can you comment on that @Colts4me ?

I am an old fart and 2400 was the go to powder for decades for the 44 and 357. It burns dirty but you have a burning rate that allows change of charge weights without fear of detonation. 296 and H110 had warnings years ago to only use max powder charge or you risk detonation. Elmer Keith came up with his famous 44 load using 2400 and it served me well for many years but I went to jacketed bullets when I got too lazy to clean the lead out

 

[The Heretic]

What does the Dacron do for you? Keep the powder from settling?

As orygun said, I use Dacron to keep the powder to the rear of a large case, against the primer, regardless of the position of the firearm. Theoretically it makes for a more consistent ignition and burning. I had no problems with it, and indeed, those loads were the most accurate I ever shot - half inch groups at 25 yards, six inch barrel and iron sights.

 

[P7M13]

I think you quoted the wrong post.
I've never done it, but yes, Dacron is to keep the powder at the base of the case instead of letting a small charge lay on the wall (floor) and not ignite reliably.

I thought I quoted Heretic, and perhaps him liking your answer indicates his would be the same.
Great post -- thanks.

 

[orygun]

I think you quoted the wrong post.

JEEESUS! I read that quote 5 times and still didn't see the mention of Dacron. Sure, not until I post about it....

 

[Colts4me]

I think you quoted the wrong post.
I've never done it, but yes, Dacron is to keep the powder at the base of the case instead of letting a small charge lay on the wall (floor) and not ignite reliably.

Dacron also stops detonation by keeping the powder close to the primer hole which is a real must when using a fast burning powder in a big case.

 

[The Heretic]

JEEESUS! I read that quote 5 times and still didn't see the mention of Dacron. Sure, not until I post about it....

My fault - I should have capitalized it since it is a proper name.

 

[orygun]

My fault - I should have capitalized it since it is a proper name.

Not your fault I can't read....

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm a long time reloader, but am a brand new at loading and tailoring ammo for a 44 Mag revolver. It's a 4" S&W Model 69 5 shot Combat Magnum and it's probably quite a bit lighter than the 7 shot 686+ I had. Needless to say, recoil is fierce and I'm looking to find the balance of power vs. recoil that works for me.
I've not chrono-ed any loads thru the gun yet and don't have a good reference point, but the listed velocities of the 44 Mag and 44 Spec. ammo I've got lead me to believe that I'm looking for something that splits the difference.
Keep in mind that I've not shot any of the 44 Special loads yet, but a 400 fps reduction in posted velocity with a 40gr lighter bullet is probably more than needed to reduce recoil to a tolerable level.
Looking at a few manuals it looks like 900-ish fps is about all they show for a 240gr JHP in a Special case and I'm thinking I'll want something more like 1000fps. I don't have any loads for the Special case that push past normal 44 Special pressure limit so before I start, I'm asking questions.

240gr JHP at 1000 or 300gr LSWC at 900, which case would you use?

I can think of no reason to use the special cases. Just use the magnum. Taylor your loads to what you want. With the lighter loads those cases can be used till the neck wear out. You will get a lot of use out of them.

 

[P7M13]

As orygun said, I use Dacron to keep the powder to the rear of a large case, against the primer, regardless of the position of the firearm. Theoretically it makes for a more consistent ignition and burning. I had no problems with it, and indeed, those loads were the most accurate I ever shot - half inch groups at 25 yards, six inch barrel and iron sights.

Thank you for your explanation.
I believe it's relevant in some loads I want to try, using 11 grains of Unique underneath 110 grain 30 carbine projectiles in 308 cases. Didn't want the powder to settle out, but in theads on this load, no one mentions dacron or Cream of Wheat.
Cheap plinking loads at 10¢ each with softer recoil for my son so he can shoot thousands for trigger time.

 

[orygun]

I can think of no reason to use the special cases. Just use the magnum. Taylor your loads to what you want. With the lighter loads those cases can be used till the neck wear out. You will get a lot of use out of them.

I loaded 41 Mag cases at Max for many loadings. Over the years I think I had two split cases, and those were ones that had been through the wringer many times.

Thank you for your explanation.
I believe it's relevant in some loads I want to try, using 11 grains of Unique underneath 110 grain 30 carbine projectiles in 308 cases. Didn't want the powder to settle out, but in theads on this load, no one mentions dacron or Cream of Wheat.
Cheap plinking loads at 10¢ each with softer recoil for my son so he can shoot thousands for trigger time.

I agree you should use something as filler here! I used some very light charges in a 357 Maximum case once (don't ask) and had squibs, hangfires and who knows what else going on, even after I made a point of bringing the barrel vertical when cocking and bringing it back on target slowly. While my idea was still pretty stupid, some kind of filler would surely have made the ignition much more consistent. The Cream of Wheat might be easier to do. I'd try one of those Lee powder dippers for it.

 

[P7M13]

I loaded 41 Mag cases at Max for many loadings. Over the years I think I had two split cases, and those were ones that had been through the wringer many times.



I agree you should use something as filler here! I used some very light charges in a 357 Maximum case once (don't ask) and had squibs, hangfires and who knows what else going on, even after I made a point of bringing the barrel vertical when cocking and bringing it back on target slowly. While my idea was still pretty stupid, some kind of filler would surely have made the ignition much more consistent. The Cream of Wheat might be easier to do. I'd try one of those Lee powder dippers for it.

Could use rice or millet too. Kill paper and feed critters.

 

[The Heretic]

Thank you for your explanation.
I believe it's relevant in some loads I want to try, using 11 grains of Unique underneath 110 grain 30 carbine projectiles in 308 cases. Didn't want the powder to settle out, but in theads on this load, no one mentions dacron or Cream of Wheat.
Cheap plinking loads at 10¢ each with softer recoil for my son so he can shoot thousands for trigger time.

Cream of wheat is sometimes mentioned as a filler, but it can mix with the powder as the cartridge is moved, whereas Dacron does not and holds the powder to the rear. Dacron is also lighter and more volume for a given weight - it also compresses because it has a lot of air volume, without compressing the powder and changing the ignition/burning characteristics. I have seen no residue either - it either is completely discharged from the gun and/or burnt (probably the latter).

It is cheap and easy to get and one package for stuffing a pillow will last years - I still have most of what I bought decades ago - a little pinch goes a long ways.

 

[KKG]

Kapok(early Life Vests used this material) was also used as a filler for reduced powder loading for many years. Life Vests hadn't used the material for years so it is seldom used any more.

 

[Tikkakoski]

Following

 

[444Thumper]

My favorite mid range load for my Redhawk and SBH's is 8.5gr Unique and a 250g Keith style SWC. That load has been around a long time and is not only very accurate for me but in most guns seems to shoot to the same point of aim as my 240 gr JHP/24g H110 hunting load out to about 50 yds. As I recall, it runs around 1000 fps. I just use 44 mag brass, keep the Special brass for my 44 Special guns. I like that Mod 69. It seems to me like a pretty good replacement for the 696 and you don't have to mortgage the house to buy one. Has the full mag capability, too, should you want or need it. Hope you enjoy your new revolver.

 

[Argonaut]

The exact reason to use Trail Boss is because it is bulky and fills the cases without filler or any other witchcraft.

 

[gmerkt]

There is another powder along the line of Trail Boss but said to be better. That's Vihta Vouri "Tin Star," also identified by their number N32C. I have a bottle of it that I haven't used yet but it's said to not peak out in velocity as quickly as Trail Boss. It has the same virtues of lower pressures while filling excess case capacity. You can go to the VV website and see the load data for it which includes .44 mag. Warning, it's pricey and difficult to find. I bought it to try in .38-40 but it can be used in other large capacity revolver cases. Likely I will get around to trying it out in .45 Colt and .41 Mag.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

could always trailboss it....