.380 vs 38

[AMProducts]

There seems to be a fair amount of overhead here in terms of guns vs calibers.

The reality is, most of the traditional data that has been gathered by the experience of people being shot as a way of judging how effective a caliber is was largely done with antiquated bullet designs and this data simply doesn't apply the same way it used to, and IMHO, caliber should actually be the last factor in deciding "what gun to get".

The real factors that should come in:

Can the user hit the target?
Can the user care for and operate this weapon adequately?
Can the user carry this weapon comfortably?

While I don't currently have a revolver, I plan on getting one for summer carry, main reasons: weight, ease of operation, and if I can shoot one well, accuracy. I have lots of pistols, a few of them fall into the "small" category, the ones I currently carry with any regularity: walther P22 or an old Colt 25 ACP. Of those, I actually like the 25 the most, because it's the smallest, and it's also very easy to shoot.

Also, last I checked the rules of gunfighting went something like this:

1) Bring a gun
2) if you do, try to make sure it's a rifle.

I didn't see any mention of caliber there.

 

[Gunfan]

I personally know a guy that took 4 rounds in forehead from a .25 and proceeded to f' up his attacker hard. The rounds did not penetrate his skull, afterwards he said he thought the guy was throwing jabs at him and it was not until after he broke him did realize he had been shot. He was released from the hospital before the dude that shot him. The .25 is probably the worst cartridge on the planet. YMMV but I wouldn't count on it.

But then again, I also know another dude that took two rounds of 30-30 center of mass and nearly beat the guy that shot him to death with his own gun. I'd still take a 30-30 or most anything over a .25.

Your friend is extremely fortunate that he hadn't been shot in the nose or eye. It is likely that he never would have survived to tell the story. Had the arm been a .22 LR the outcome would have likely been the same. The old ".22 LR is more potent than the ,25 ACP" BS is just that. The .25 has a more penetration power than the .22 because the FMJ will always penetrate more than lead bullets at the same velocities.

Scott

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Oh goodie, a caliber war thread

The .380 is underpowered for a primary carry gun, this is why no cops carry them any more as a primary. I would start at .38 +P and 9MM +P with 3 inch and + barrels

Anyone who thinks a few .380s are going to stop a drugged up/drunk every time are in for a huge surprise.. all they need is to stay active a few seconds in order to gun you down or stab you to death. In self defense you need them out of action, NOW

I was told by an EMT about a fellow who was shot 8 times dead center torso (25 auto) by a guy, and he proceeded to beat the shooter nearly to death. He found some paper towels, plugged the tiny holes and waited for the EMTs. He survived

 

[soberups]

I'll tell you quite plainly that I prefer the .32 ACP (which I can shoot quickly and accurately under stress) to the .380. If I want to shoot anything "heavier" it's either my Kel-Tec P-11 (in 9mm, of course) or my GP100 in .357 Magnum, in which I'm shooting .38 S&W Special loads. Occasionally, I'll stuff my Yugo M70 (.32 ACP) in my back pocket when I take out the garbage.

My little single action "pocket .32" comes in mighty handy when it comes to stopping someone from becoming too "aggressive."

Believe me, i can dump a hand full of Fiocchi 73 grain FMJ ammunition in someone's face/throat/chest as quickly as you can say "oh $#it!" These will usually "leave a mark."

Scott

I used to pocket-carry a KelTec P-32.

I used the gun on two occasions to euthanize deer that had been hit by cars and needed to be dragged out of the road. On both occasions it took multiple head shots with Winchester Silvertip HP's to put them down for the count. After the second abysmal failure of the gun to do the job, I replaced it with a Ruger LCR .38+P and never looked back.

 

[soberups]

For me the choice comes down to safety and reliability.

A hammerless airwight .38+P snub such as the LCR or a J-frame has no issues with jamming, no issues with racking the slide, and no issues with the mag release button getting accidentally pushed. It will go bang when you pull the trigger, and it will deliver a payload that is markedly superior to anything offered in .380ACP. Revolvers are fundamentally simpler and safer for relatively untrained people to operate under stress. They can also be fired from inside a coat pocket or purse, which allows someone in an elevator or othe crowded location to have the gun in their hand and ready to fire while still being concealed. I simply do not trust the current crop of subcompact 380's to be 100% reliable when the chips are down.

 

[Gunfan]

I'm not bragging, but I have the marksmanship to concentrate on an assailant's face (even in the event of a stressful situation.) The little "ball" .32 Auto rounds will probably provide a headache that will not likely be resolved by a dose of Excedrin! It isn't the best but I find it more controllable than the .380 in a similar-sized handgun.

Scott

PS, I prefer the .38 Special, but my .32 H&R Magnum revolver will do in a pinch!

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Personal preference, but modern .380 ammo has gotten pretty good

 

[Blitzkrieg]

.380 lacks penetration needed for angling and side wise shots. You either use ball and sacrifice expansion, or risk poor penetration. It's purely a matter of energy. Buffalo Bore is good ammo, I used to carry a wierd safety slug type in my 1911 chamber

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I'm not bragging, but I have the marksmanship to concentrate on an assailant's face (even in the event of a stressful situation.) The little "ball" .32 Auto rounds will probably provide a headache that will not likely be resolved by a dose of Excedrin! It isn't the best but I find it more controllable than the .380 in a similar-sized handgun.

Scott

PS, I prefer the .38 Special, but my .32 H&R Magnum revolver will do in a pinch!

I've been there.. you get tunnel vision, the Fog of War, and your (and my) fine motor skills will go out the window. I'm cool "under fire" (In a fight) but it still happens

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I used to pocket-carry a KelTec P-32.

I used the gun on two occasions to euthanize deer that had been hit by cars and needed to be dragged out of the road. On both occasions it took multiple head shots with Winchester Silvertip HP's to put them down for the count. After the second abysmal failure of the gun to do the job, I replaced it with a Ruger LCR .38+P and never looked back.

I once had to shoot a poor little dog I had run over. Took several 45 ACP +Ps in the head to quickly kill her. I also shot a large jackrabbit in the gut once (old .303, not exact POA) and it laid there and screamed with it's guts blown open until I ran up and gave the coup de gras. People who haven't shot live targets are clueless

For those who do not know, the .303 British was once of the most devastating of the .30 caliber bolt guns

 

[Gunfan]

.380 lacks penetration needed for angling and side wise shots. You either use ball and sacrifice expansion, or risk poor penetration. It's purely a matter of energy. Buffalo Bore is good ammo, I used to carry a wierd safety slug type in my 1911 chamber

On the nose! In the smaller (or lower powered) calibers, penetration is the way to make the bad guy fall down... go BOOM!

Scott

 

[Gunfan]

I've been there.. you get tunnel vision, the Fog of War, and your (and my) fine motor skills will go out the window. I'm cool "under fire" (In a fight) but it still happens

I ave also "been there" and held someone at gunpoint. (The stress is tremendous!) That's why a flurry of hot .32 ACP loads in someone's face is easier to accomplish than you may if you are using a hotter round. If you do your part, the opponent will wind up having an extremely bad day.

Scott

 

[soberups]

Personal preference, but modern .380 ammo has gotten pretty good

Have you priced Buffalo Bore ammo lately?

Given that many of the subcompact pocket 380's are known to be finicky and have feeding issues, I would want to run at least 200 rounds of my chosen carry ammo thru one of them with zero malfunctions before I would be willing to trust my life to it. 200 rounds of premium .380 ammo will generally cost at least as much if not more than the gun you are shooting it out of. In my mind the biggest advantage that airweight .38 revolvers have over the pocket 380's is their ability to reliably run virtually anything from wadcutters to Buffalo Bores to Glaser Safety Slugs with no worries about feeding or extraction. This fact will more than offset the price difference between a $300 pocket .380 and a $450 airweight J-frame or LCR.

 

[solv3nt]

44 Magnum /Thread

 

[RicInOR]

How is she going to carry it? On her person or in her purse.
If in one of those large fashionable bags, why not an AR pistol? :huh:

But, honestly if she won't carry it, the discussion doesn't matter.
And if it will be in a bag, the that opens up everything, including full size (5" barrels")

Carry what you shoot best, and carry all the time.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Have you priced Buffalo Bore ammo lately?

Given that many of the subcompact pocket 380's are known to be finicky and have feeding issues, I would want to run at least 200 rounds of my chosen carry ammo thru one of them with zero malfunctions before I would be willing to trust my life to it. 200 rounds of premium .380 ammo will generally cost at least as much if not more than the gun you are shooting it out of. In my mind the biggest advantage that airweight .38 revolvers have over the pocket 380's is their ability to reliably run virtually anything from wadcutters to Buffalo Bores to Glaser Safety Slugs with no worries about feeding or extraction. This fact will more than offset the price difference between a $300 pocket .380 and a $450 airweight J-frame or LCR.[/QUOTE

The Buffalo ammo I referred to was definitely a non feeder but looked bad arse on paper.. a hot loaded, copper jacket half filled with shot, and a lightweight pure copper DEEP hollowpoint crimped in over it. I bought a few 5 or 6 packs and fired some with loaded magazines of handloads behind.. it worked great so I put one in the chamber and called it good. Would never put that thing in a magazine and think it would feed

 

[Blitzkrieg]

44 Magnum /Thread

In the early days (Until maybe the year 2000, not counting wierd specialty rds) the factory .357 mag ammo beat .44 mags for stopping power.. because the .44s available were heavy constructed hunting rds and did not expand well on thin skinned humans.. but now with modern bullet tech the more powerful rounds are king, with the right ammo

 

[solv3nt]

In the early days (Until maybe the year 2000, not counting wierd specialty rds) the factory .357 mag ammo beat .44 mags for stopping power.. because the .44s available were heavy constructed hunting rds and did not expand well on thin skinned humans.. but now with modern bullet tech the more powerful rounds are king, with the right ammo

Just blasted a few rounds into the hillside, the XTP's basically disintegrated in about 6" of dirt. 230 grain XTP rounds moving around 1600fps, the pop can didn't do much to stop them...

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Just blasted a few rounds into the hillside, the XTP's basically disintegrated in about 6" of dirt. 230 grain XTP rounds moving around 1600fps, the pop can didn't do much to stop them...

Dirt isn't flesh. I am 9 inches front to back and an old style 44 would expand little in that passage.. a 125 grain Remington .357 would blow a man to #@ll by comparison

 

[solv3nt]

Dirt isn't flesh

I'm not too worried, the entrance holes were an inch in diameter